Hello. >>> 1993 Rover 820i

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ThisIsMadeInEngland
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Re: Hello. >>> 1993 Rover 820i

Post by ThisIsMadeInEngland » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:15 am

Good morning.

No, it dies while driving.
For example. I drove from Bridport, east all the way along dual and single track A roads. Got onto the M27 and it cut out between Junction 1 and 2.
The last trip is where it cut out multiple times and also started to cut when stationary at lights and in traffic.
The Idling has become very erratic.
I only managed to get it home by keeping the revs over +2K and holding the clutch.
Mike
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Re: Hello. >>> 1993 Rover 820i

Post by traineefarmer » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:22 am

Another thing worth a check - your early car should have an idle switch on the accelerator pedal to put the ECU into idle mode when your foot is off the pedal. This can fail or be damaged so it misses the pedal. Also incorrectly set throttle cables can confuse the ECU.
Tom.

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Re: Hello. >>> 1993 Rover 820i

Post by scoobyh123 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:08 am

ThisIsMadeInEngland wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:15 am
Good morning.

No, it dies while driving.
For example. I drove from Bridport, east all the way along dual and single track A roads. Got onto the M27 and it cut out between Junction 1 and 2.
The last trip is where it cut out multiple times and also started to cut when stationary at lights and in traffic.
The Idling has become very erratic.
I only managed to get it home by keeping the revs over +2K and holding the clutch.
At least there's a few good pubs just off J1 of the M27 - or at least there were a couple of decades ago!

Joking aside, where does the temperature gauge sit during all of this? Imagine the hour hand on a clock - the temperature gauge should be at the 830-840 position, just below horizontal.

Assuming the temperature is getting up to where it should be, does it start from cold and run ok until it gets up to temperature or is it a pig to start when cold? If it starts/runs ok when cold, then it's almost certainly fuel related, either air leaks somewhere on the inlet side between the throttle body and the throttle body insulator block or possibly a split hose on the inlet manifold.

Could also be the fuel pressure regulator giving up the ghost. This is (if i remember rightly) on the right hand end of the inlet manifold, there should be a small bore vacuum hose between it and the inlet manifold, pull this hose off the regulator with the engine running and block the hose and observe whether any fuel comes out of the stub on the regulator. If it does you need a new fuel pressure regulator.

If it's not the FPR, get a can of WD40 with the nozzle attached and with the engine running, spray it around the throttle body from as many angles as you can manage. If there are any leaks the engine note will change when the WD enters the leak so you can narrow it down that way. If that doesn't show up a leak check the rest of the inlet manifold the same way.

If all is good there, i would suspect the CTS - Coolant Temperature Sensor. Can't remember where this is located on the T-series but i know others on here can point you in the right direction.

Also check your dizzy cap and rotor arm including the carbon brush inside the dizzy cap.

After this lot it's getting towards possibly the MAP sensor which is built into the MEMS ECU - should be a small bore vacuum pipe between the manifold and ECU somewhere which needs checking for leaks as well.
Cheers,
Dave


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Re: Hello. >>> 1993 Rover 820i

Post by ThisIsMadeInEngland » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:00 pm

Thanks for that. Will try that on Tuesday.
The fault originally was cutting out while driving and very randam. Usually in 5th gear after a period of time and then a complete cut out, but restarted on the 2nd or 3rd ignition turn over.
It has now progressed to erratic idling and cutting out while just turning over and multiple cut out while driving and a longer period to restart.

Fuel filter changed today and no change.

About to write down all the advice given and produce a worksheet for parts and a systematic work schedule.

Any advice on best supplier of all the parts needed ?

Mike
Mike
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Re: Hello. >>> 1993 Rover 820i

Post by ThisIsMadeInEngland » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:15 pm

Hi Dave, missed your post. Not so easy to read the board on a mobile.

There is NO problem with starting freezing cold or normal. No problem with the Temperature Gauge or certain running conditions.


The more I read ALL the advice given it seems to be a pressure problem / leak.

As not a full engine mechanic (more a wax 'n' polish and electics), I would look to take it to an established mechanic. Or, more than happy to pay for a service and a wonderful day/night in Bridport.
Mike
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Re: Hello. >>> 1993 Rover 820i

Post by scoobyh123 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:06 pm

No worries Mike - what's the economy like?

If it starts fine from cold that more or less rules out ignition (there are a few niggly faults that could be ignition related but they would usually show up on cold starts as well) so it suggests it's either over or under fueling.

Prime suspect there is over-fueling and the main culprit of that is the CTS as many T-Series owners will tell you.

Image

Item 15 is the CTS (it says in the list) and after a bit of digging around in the Intermotor Catalogue, Rimmers etc this should be the right one :

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TO-CLEAR-NEW- ... SwTuJYqx79

What usually happens with these is they go into a high resistance state so the MEMS ECU thinks the engine is in Siberia and the thermostat hasn't opened so it adjusts the mixture accordingly and throws fuel in like there's no tomorrow. Eventually on a hot engine this will flood it. It can also cause your cat to overheat and i know someone who had his cat glowing red thanks to the CTS failing - that also caused the car to cut out!

I'm not saying this is definitely the problem but there's a very high chance it is, for the sake of £6 and a few minutes with a spanner (have the new one ready to screw in as you remove the old one to minimise coolant loss) it could well solve your problems. :wink: :D
Cheers,
Dave


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Re: Hello. >>> 1993 Rover 820i

Post by ThisIsMadeInEngland » Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:11 pm

Great shout and thought process... thanks for taking the time.

Have linked onto eBay and purchased the item.

I hope £6.00 spent on any any new parts is worth the equal of any bunch of flowers to any Rover, to state I ♡ you.

I just hope mine says thank you to me!
Mike
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Re: Hello. >>> 1993 Rover 820i

Post by scoobyh123 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:23 am

You're welcome Mike - i hope it says thank you as well! :wink: :D
Cheers,
Dave


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Re: Hello. >>> 1993 Rover 820i

Post by rovercoup » Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:05 pm

There are known (across the 800 circle) issuse with certain CTS 's from different suppliers failing to work even when bought brand new. I speak from expierence on this and simon had similar issuse as well. Best practice would be to borrow one from a working car to prove the theory before and after any purchase. Intermoto was the one that worked for me even though i had bought 2 as the first didnt work. Once CTS proven if you still have the problem then my T4 would help find any other issuse you have if you prepared to drive to herefordshire.
Rover 820 Coupe sport 94 (PMF)
Rover 820 Vitesse Fastback 98 (COQ)
Rover 827 Sterling saloon 90 auto (LMZ)
Rover 827 Vitesse Fastback Mk1 89 (HNR)
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Re: Hello. >>> 1993 Rover 820i

Post by ThisIsMadeInEngland » Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:17 pm

Thanks to eBay superfast delivery. Replaced the CTS tonight.
NO fix!

Difficulty today, in moving it out of my storage and back in again. So my look to trailer it up to Heredfordshire, as I just want to get this baby on the road with complete confidence.
It has under 42K on the clock and needs to see the world....
Mike
Bridport ~ British West Dorset
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Re: Hello. >>> 1993 Rover 820i

Post by ThisIsMadeInEngland » Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:19 pm

Will dig out the packaging for the CTS just to list the manufacturer.
Mike
Bridport ~ British West Dorset
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Re: Hello. >>> 1993 Rover 820i

Post by Alucard7002 » Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:12 pm

Silly question but a 1993 early T16 with 42K on it will no doubt be suffering from sticky exhaust valves?

Have you tired a good old fashioned Italian Tuneup?
Dušan

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Previous:
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Re: Hello. >>> 1993 Rover 820i

Post by scoobyh123 » Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:55 pm

ThisIsMadeInEngland wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:17 pm
Thanks to eBay superfast delivery. Replaced the CTS tonight.
NO fix!

Difficulty today, in moving it out of my storage and back in again. So my look to trailer it up to Heredfordshire, as I just want to get this baby on the road with complete confidence.
It has under 42K on the clock and needs to see the world....
Nurses and warty curds! (think about it!) :wink:

Try pulling fuse "S" for 5 minutes - make sure you have the radio code just in case although it doesn't normally effect the radio, it just resets the fault codes in the MEMS and ABS ECUs :


Image

It may run a bit rough for a while but a good drive should sort it out. Also check your coolant level and if it still won't play, try spraying WD40 as previously described to eliminate air leaks as a possible cause.

Dusan might well have a valid point as well about an Italian decoke, especially if it's been stood a while! If you think you may have some sticking tappets and/or valves, add some ATF to the engine oil - between 1/4 and half a litre is usually about right, helps clean things and revive the seals and cleans out the hydraulic tappets.
I use it in all my engines (even those without hydraulic tappets) to help keep them clean and leak-free. :wink: :D
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'95 827 Coupé LPG
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
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Re: Hello. >>> 1993 Rover 820i

Post by ThisIsMadeInEngland » Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:58 pm

Many thanks for the ongoing updates Dave, Dusan.
Will purchase a Big can of WD-40 and some ATS.

Also, check the Throttle Hose for Blockages/Leaks as previously mentioned.
Mike
Bridport ~ British West Dorset
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Re: Hello. >>> 1993 Rover 820i

Post by zcar12 » Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:46 am

Mike, many ,members have posted great advice for you on here and you need to work your way methodically through all the suggestions posted, if you are to crack your problem.

I have owned a manual 820Si for 15 years. Its an early Mk2 and I had a problem with a high idle. Turned out my car had a switch right by the accelerator pedal in the cabin. According to the Rover manuals, my car did not have this switch but it did. Go figure!. The MEMS unit contains a series of maps for different driving conditions. The accelerator cable switch, when it is closed, tells MEMS to implement the idle map program. No signal and you will get a high idle, and erratic engine performance.

Your problem may just be down to corrosion somewhere, it could be anywhere. My thoughts are that current can flow when cold, but resistance to flow may be higher when things warm up. Good advice is to clean out the throttle body, check throttle cable is free and moves easily. Sticking valves may be another possibility but a compression check would help rule that out. Dave's advice to add a little ATF to the engine oil is also worth taking, it worked for me.

Whatever you do, dont give up! Once it is sorted, you will really appreciate driving an 800.

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