New Member (with lots of cheek)

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Derek Oliver
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New Member (with lots of cheek)

Post by Derek Oliver » Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:40 am

Hi - I am hoping that the forum can be as good a mine of information as the MG owners club one. I don't have an 800 although I have long thought that these are much under rated.

What I do have is a 1972 MGB GT and am embarking on an engine/gearbox conversion using a T series engine and Rover R380 gearbox. I say embarking however this project began about 4 yrs ago but regrettably “life” has been very uncooperative since then so the car has been sitting all forlorn on my drive. I give it a pat and tell it “soon” each day.

I am determined now to get it back on track. I have what seems to be a decent 800 (I think) engine and the gearbox has just been sent off for overhaul. I have the skills needed for the mechanical aspects of this - full overhaul of the engine and the minor body mods to make it fit - I even have the luxury of a 2 post lift in my garage.

The bit I am apprehensive about is the electronics. I would like to retain the MEMS rather than convert to the after market “Megajolt” system. Is there a suitable diagnostic set up available other than the Rover test book. After very bad experience with diagnostics for a Volvo C30 (still sitting dead on my drive !) I would appreciate advice on what's available and works.

The engine number is 20T4GJ50 136015 and I am wondering if there is a resource to positively identify its origin. I also have 2 MEMS boxes and the engine loom fits either. I did some research long ago and I have a note on each as follows

A :- YR mkc 10117 2822 4043 which I labelled 820 Ti 89 - 92. This one has a second socket smaller than the one for the engine loom.
B :- YS mkc 103800 346 4093 which I labelled 820 Vitesse 96 - 2000. (one socket only)
Does anyone know which one would be the most appropriate to start with ?

And finally we are located in Lincolnshire between Sleaford and Boston; is there anyone knowledgeable about the mems who would be ready to come and help me sort it out. Travel and beer money reimbursed of course
Derek Oliver

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scoobyh123
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Re: New Member (with lots of cheek)

Post by scoobyh123 » Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:13 pm

Hi Derek and welcome aboard! Interesting project you have there along similar lines to something i've wanted to do for a long time (Datsun/Nissan L24E engine/box into a Mk2 Triumph 2000) but life for me has been similarly uncooperative so it ain't gonna happen!

However, it's possible i may be able to help you with various parts/advice etc and although my knowledge of MEMS isn't brilliant i think i may be able to offer you a good solution. I'll drop you a PM which should explain it better than the slightly cryptic hint here!

**** EDIT ****

PM sent re loom/ECU/CCU etc.

Also just noticed the ECUs that you have are both for turbo cars - is yours a turbo engine? Also do you have the corresponding CCUs and alarm sensors/fobs?
Cheers,
Dave


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Derek Oliver
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Re: New Member (with lots of cheek)

Post by Derek Oliver » Sun Feb 14, 2016 4:43 pm

Hi Dave
Picked up your PM and have tried a few times to reply but the forum seems to have had a wobbler for a couple of days - kept on bringing up "broken link" message. (I hope I didn't cause it !)
Definitely interested in the loom etc if it's not an arm & a leg. Re ECUs / turbo - yes the intention is to fit the turbo as well. Distant memory is that I bought one of the Mems boxes with the bits for the imobiliser including the ign key/fob. I have already mounted the intercooler and fabricated an inlet manifold ready.

I have had a sherpa flywheel machined to take the crank position trigger "ring". Squeezing in the turbo to exhaust plumbing will be tricky due to clearances. The only major problem is the water pump; when the 800 engine is turned 90 degrees its pump position clashes with the engine mounts so I might in the end have to resort to an electric pump for that.
Having a cataract opp monday week and hoping then to work towards a trial fit mid Mar when the gearbox should be back. dandmoliver2@talktalk.net direct email if the forum won't co operate again

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Re: New Member (with lots of cheek)

Post by BlueRover » Sun Feb 14, 2016 7:03 pm

Hi, welcome to the forum. The T series power steering and water pump assembly is one unit as you probably know. If you're not using the power steering and you opt for an electrc water pump then you're laughing. If you like the idea of power steering (how you'd do that on your intended "victim" would be intersting to see) then removing the water pump wouldn't make any difference.
TBH, no power steering on an MGB wouldn't seem a problem as with it being rwd then there'd be virtually no effort steering the front wheels.
There is a guy on here who put an M series into an MGB which was easier as the water pump is at the back of the block and driven by the cambelt. I believe he had a turbo/carb setup too.

I wonder if he's finished it yet ?
Gordon:-
Only two 800's now,white 1991 820i with TWR and full special order leather (been stood for 15 years) and now a Nightfire red Tickford with 135k on the clock
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Derek Oliver
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Re: New Member (with lots of cheek)

Post by Derek Oliver » Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:14 am

Hi Gordon
Re power steering. You clearly havn't driven a B. The heavy steering at low speeds/parking is so notorious that MGOC have developed a PAS kit which I have on mine. Without it you need to be in your 20s and seriously into body building, it's something about the geometry designed for cross plys not suiting modern radial tyres.
It's a Peugeot lhd rack mounted upside down (the B has the rack in front of the wheels whereas all modern vehicle have it behind the engine for safety in a crash) inverting lhd puts the "direction" correct. Specialists have also developed electric pas kits that use an ex vauxhall corsa steering column so it fits in the cabin. When I fitted mine those had not been sorted.
I also hope to fit air con so hopefully a photo attached of where I got to 3 or 4 yrs ago before "life" intervened. The 800 integrated water pump and pas pump fitted high on a fabricated mounting to change the angle of the water flow and keep the standard belt tensioner. The alternator driven by a secondary short belt off the pas pump pulley. A trial fit will see if I have to go back to sqare one !!

I can't see how to add a jpg off my PC (i am a dozy old grumpy)

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Re: New Member (with lots of cheek)

Post by scoobyh123 » Mon Feb 15, 2016 12:06 pm

Derek Oliver wrote:Hi Dave
Picked up your PM and have tried a few times to reply but the forum seems to have had a wobbler for a couple of days - kept on bringing up "broken link" message. (I hope I didn't cause it !)
Definitely interested in the loom etc if it's not an arm & a leg. Re ECUs / turbo - yes the intention is to fit the turbo as well. Distant memory is that I bought one of the Mems boxes with the bits for the imobiliser including the ign key/fob. I have already mounted the intercooler and fabricated an inlet manifold ready.

I have had a sherpa flywheel machined to take the crank position trigger "ring". Squeezing in the turbo to exhaust plumbing will be tricky due to clearances. The only major problem is the water pump; when the 800 engine is turned 90 degrees its pump position clashes with the engine mounts so I might in the end have to resort to an electric pump for that.
Having a cataract opp monday week and hoping then to work towards a trial fit mid Mar when the gearbox should be back. dandmoliver2@talktalk.net direct email if the forum won't co operate again

Hi Derek - yes the forum has been playing up - not sure why! Doubt it was anything you did though! :wink: :D

The loom etc won't be in limb proportions although it's from a n/asp car. I'm not 100% sure the turbo uses the same loom but i can check. Do you know what year the MEMS/CCU/Ign key and fob came from? Also was it the wasted spark or distributor ignition system?

Just a thought about fitting the turbo as well - the standard B is about 90-95bhp, the BV8 is about 125bhp (very detuned P6 lump) and the n/asp T series is 136bhp. With a bit of head work, reprofiled cams etc the T-series should kick out about 150-160bhp even without the turbo. Just something to think about if you really can't find the room to fit the turbo and its plumbing.

Good luck with your op - hope it all goes well!

As for uploading jpg images, if you go to a photo-hosting site like photobucket.com (most of us use that one) you can get a free account there and upload your pics there. They then give you a link which you copy and paste into the post you want it to appear, there are several "how to" guides on the forum FAQ section - i could describe the process but it's probably easier for you to read one of the guides or more to the point, less confusing! :D
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
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'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

Derek Oliver
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Re: New Member (with lots of cheek)

Post by Derek Oliver » Mon Feb 15, 2016 1:35 pm

Thank Dave
Re photos; I am used to the MGOC forum where photos can be attached directly from your PC.

Re the mems etc - it was a set from a scrapper about 4 yrs ago and I have forgotten which exact model it came from - these days I often can't remember what I did an hour or 2 ago !!

Never used photobucket or equiv as I am a little nervous of what info I release into public digital space, so will now investigate it a bit further.

The main urge behind the fitting of the T series is not to blast about for which the V8 conversion is well established but can be very thirsty.
The 1800 B usually averages 30 ish but the accurate electronic control of spark and injection of the T can pull that up towards 50 when "touring".
Anyway I like "messing about" with old cars.

Sorting the mems shouldn't be a major stumbling block if I can track down the info as I was trained as an electrical engineer but long, long ago just as the digital revolution was starting. I never realy got properly to grips with it...........Derek

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Re: New Member (with lots of cheek)

Post by scoobyh123 » Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:17 pm

The economy was part of the reason i suggested going n/asp, rather than turbo charged. Also if you don't intend blasting about, would you really want 180-200bhp on tap?

The one problem with the MEMS system is the lack of information available - Rover kept the immobilisation a closely guarded secret, not even the dealer electrical manuals show the circuitry. I've successfully defeated the immobiliser on one or two MEMS equipped cars but only for a short period at a time - one also had a massive air leak into the inlet manifold which was hidden at the time but the other didn't. From what i understand, if you do manage to defeat the immob the way i did it, it will run for a few seconds and die.

My background is similar to yours - Elec & Electronic Engineering with "broad-based" apprenticeship so reading diagrams isn't a problem for me. I also came along a few years after you i think as part of my college work was on Digital Applications - can't remember now if that was the exact title of that part of the course as it was 30 years ago and "home computers" were still a rarity. The internet existed but not as we now know it, it was only for govt/military use then and it was only about 10 years later that the "world wide web" became publicly accessible.

Photobucket is a pretty safe site, like you i was a bit nervous about what i uploaded to it initially but it's really just like having a convenient place to store all your photos. You can password protect part or all of your photos on there although any you want to show on here would need to be public so we can see them.

Always fancied a B myself but never quite got there - closest i came was passing my test in an MG Metro and later owning an MG Montego Turbo, neither of which are true MGs although they still wear the Octagon.
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
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'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

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Re: New Member (with lots of cheek)

Post by BlueRover » Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:47 pm

Derek, I had a couple of Montegos years back and neither had power steering so I know about heavy. that being said, a few years back my auxiliary drivebelt on my white 800 snapped so I had to drive with no alternator or power steering. Boy, was that hard work especially when I got home and had to turn and reverse into the drive.
I look forward to seeing some pictures of the fabrications. I have a mate down the road who pretty much fabricates anything he needs from scratch, he changed a Ford V8 racing engine over to a straight six diesel engine into his Landie dragster.
Gordon:-
Only two 800's now,white 1991 820i with TWR and full special order leather (been stood for 15 years) and now a Nightfire red Tickford with 135k on the clock
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Re: New Member (with lots of cheek)

Post by gyrobird » Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:15 pm

If you've fitted a sherpa flywheel did you fit the it with the intention of using the sensor in the same position ?

From memory there are two different types of standard flywheel for these engines so you need to be sure on this.

Personally ii'd keep it simple and just go with sourcing a known Good CCU and ECU on condition you do indeed have the correct flywheel setting.

Why make work and headaches for your self with these after market ignition systems when you don't really need it ?

With that said, it may be the easier option now I think about it :wink:

Dave, you never bypassed the immobiliser when you got the engine to start and then die. That is a characteristic of having a wrong ECU and CCU setup in a post 96 820.

The water pump and power steering housing is different for an aircon equipped engine, hence the belts being different sizes. does this not make any difference as to whether either of these will fit or does this unit get in the way full stop ?
Last edited by gyrobird on Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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scoobyh123
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Re: New Member (with lots of cheek)

Post by scoobyh123 » Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:21 pm

Mike - they were a matched pair from another 825 and were running fine on that before the DVLA stole it from private land.
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
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'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

Derek Oliver
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Re: New Member (with lots of cheek)

Post by Derek Oliver » Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:58 pm

So I have uploaded a jpg to photobucket and read the FAQ re adding photos but still a bit at sea as to how to get the image from there onto here (as before I am bit of an old wrinkly, I use a pc all day long doing CAD design drawing for planning and building regs but I can't get my head round this stage)

Plain english sequential steps instruction would be much appreciated. The theory is that I am long retired but old clients still come back for work and I am tied up all day tomorrow with a one so no upload 'till Weds.......'tis a hard life as a pensioner !! but keeps the brain alive and provides some beer money
Derek

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scoobyh123
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Re: New Member (with lots of cheek)

Post by scoobyh123 » Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:18 pm

I'll try Derek with the plain English - i hope you're familiar with "Tabbed Browsing"? Basically if you upload your pics to photobuicket and go to the album they're in then open each pic you want to show on here in a separate tab, you will have the picture and to the right of it at the top there will be two codes - one say "Email and IM", the other says "IMG". Move your mouse onto the code next to IMG and click - the code will turn yellow and the word "Copied" will appear.
Now go back to the post you're doing and put the mouse where you want the pic to appear. Right click the mouse then click "Paste" and the code (it can be quite long) will appear with the letters at each end.

Most of us hit "Enter"/"Return" once or twice to give a line or two space below the pic to make reading things clearer. Hope that explains it plainly enough.

Here is an example :

Image

That's a pic from my photobucket and what you will see when you're entering a photo will be something along the lines of this :

Here is an example :

[this will be the code for the image copied from photobucket]

That's a pic from my photobucket and wha

Hope that shows the steps as you'll see them - can't do screen shots as i don't know how!
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
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'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

Derek Oliver
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Re: New Member (with lots of cheek)

Post by Derek Oliver » Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:29 pm

Thanks Dave,
I will give the eye, post opp, a day or two to settle further (typing with one eye shut at the mo so hitting wrong keys like mad) thern I will have a go at photobucket as per your instructions; sounds doable even for an old grumpy. I also have never managed screen shots.
Derek

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Re: New Member (with lots of cheek)

Post by scoobyh123 » Tue Feb 23, 2016 3:56 pm

You're welcome Derek - go careful with that eye! I hit the wrong keys like mad all the time - i'm just a bad typist! :lol:
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
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'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

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