Hello. >>> 1993 Rover 820i

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ThisIsMadeInEngland
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Re: Hello. >>> 1993 Rover 820i

Post by ThisIsMadeInEngland » Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:27 am

Many thanks for the Support.
Mike
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Re: Hello. >>> 1993 Rover 820i

Post by ThisIsMadeInEngland » Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:30 pm

Hi Guys! Just a quick pointer on advice in the right direction.


Have been looking at all the advice given above.

I noticed that the Stepper Motor 'Chatters' after engine stalls for a prolonged period. Is this nomal? It also gives a few clicks when turning on the ignition.

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Re: Hello. >>> 1993 Rover 820i

Post by zcar12 » Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:27 pm

I have not had a problem with my steeper motor so my advice may be no good. Such behavior suggests to me that the stepper motor is becoming "confused" because it is receiving an intermittent signal from somewhere. This could be because of corrosion When a joint heats up, for example, a "cold" solder joint, it can become resistant to current flow. Check all the wiring to the stepper motor for continuity.

A few "clicks" when starting up is to be expected. This is just the motor doing what it is supposed to do, setting the throttle open just enough to enable engine start. You should find plenty of pictures on the internet that will give you the confidence to take the motor apart, clean it and reset it.

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Re: Hello. >>> 1993 Rover 820i

Post by scoobyh123 » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:15 pm

It could also suggest the switch on the throttle pedal isn't working correctly as others have already suggested. Might be worth checking to see if that is the problem as well. :wink: :D
Cheers,
Dave


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Re: Hello. >>> 1993 Rover 820i

Post by zcar12 » Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:16 pm

Mike, while troubleshooting your problems, its useful to keep in mind what the MEMS unit is designed to do. The MEMS unit holds a series of maps, which can be modified via the influence of the various .engine sensors, such as engine temperature, engine load, wide open throttle, etc. My car, being an early 820 manual, has a micro switch by the throttle pedal. When this switch is closed, it sends signal to the MEMS unit, and from this signal, it works out that the engine is not under load, not needing more fuel, etc, and it implements the idle map. usually, you then get a smooth idle. Not all early cars have this switch but its useful to check.

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Re: Hello. >>> 1993 Rover 820i

Post by ThisIsMadeInEngland » Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:52 pm

Many thanks Guys. Will put my efforts into the great pointers advised.
Again thanks for the time taken to answer.
Mike
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Re: Hello. >>> 1993 Rover 820i

Post by ThisIsMadeInEngland » Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:49 pm

Progress Report :-
Have done a few jobs on the 820i pushing my mechanical skills beyond my normal of just checking the various levels and a coat of 'Poorboys'.

Changed the CTS, checked and cleaned the plugs and Distributor Cap and points.
Added some ATS to engine and a
Fuel cleaner in the petrol tank.
Couldn't find any switch on the Throttle to Check.
Cleaned all round the Air filter and found that one clip was missing.
When I added the ATS to the engine I just kept the engine ticking manually over for about 15 minutes. The idling was still err
atic and cutting out without myself on the revs.
As the Roads are chocker with holiday makers, I decided not to take the car on the road as no Dual roads in this neck of the woods I didn't fancy being on the BBC traffic builtin's or have drivers cursing a Rover 800.
Today, I started it up and it seemed a little less erratic. So it has given me a bit of confidence and will try and give it a road test on Thursday.
Will try and find some YouTube videos for Cleaning the Carb' and Stepper.
Thanks again for all the assistance.
Mike
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Re: Hello. >>> 1993 Rover 820i

Post by scoobyh123 » Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:17 pm

ThisIsMadeInEngland wrote:
Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:49 pm

Will try and find some YouTube videos for Cleaning the Carb' and Stepper.
Thanks again for all the assistance.
Mike
Carb??? :shock:

No carb on an 820i Mike - the "i" stands for "injection".

There were a few (and i mean a few) 820e models around during the Mk1 era that had the 8v SU carb-fed engine from the Ambassador/Montego designed as an "entry level economy model".

Entry level yes, economy? Hell no!!! :shock:

Arguably the thirstiest 800 ever made! So underpowered it had to be thrashed to get it to move and you know as well as i do, you thrash an engine and it drinks fuel like Oliver Reed goes through alcohol in a free bar! :lol:

Although not my favourite engine fitted to the 800s, you've got one of the, if not the, best engines Rover designed "in house" with the T-Series.
It's origins date back to the venerable "B" Series as fitted to the Austin/Morris "Ox-bridge" models, MGBs, Marinas, Sherpa vans and several others.
Long story short, BMC/BL wanted a diesel version of the B series and started developing it by strengthening the block and a few other nice little touches. During this the head was redesigned to be an OHC with a better shaped combustion chamber.

As often happened with BMC/BL, the project was shelved. Cue the fuel crisis of the early 70s and some bright spark (every pun intended) refitted the distributor and spark plugs to the dieselised B series with a couple of extra head gaskets to bring the compression down to a sensible level again and tried it.
It gave so much more power, economy and smoothness than the B with much cleaner emissions that it was developed into the "O" Series, replacing the B in virtually everything that had been fitted to, except the MGB which retained the B until it was killed off, mainly by USA legislation concerning sports cars.

With the upcoming launch of the 800 series due for July 86, ARG (as they were by then) needed a competitive 16v 2.0 engine. Once more the head was redesigned on the "O" series and it gained an extra camshaft and 8 more valves, a proper cross-flow design and a new name - the M-Series.

This was tweaked, modified and revised to make the T-Series for 1992 and by that point was probably the best developed engine ever to come from BL/Austin-Rover/ARG/Rover Group. The "O" series was developed otherwise mainly by Perkins and Powertrain into the Perkins Prima and the L-Series diesels.

Meanwhile back in Planet Darzit, i'm sure they Grockles won't be around for too long, get that beast out and give it some beans! ;) :D
Cheers,
Dave


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Re: Hello. >>> 1993 Rover 820i

Post by ThisIsMadeInEngland » Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:25 am

Thanks Dave.
Hence why I check and top up the Oil, Tyres, Water and other Fluids and feel like a 'Mechanic'. Very, very basic!

I thought the Aluminum Pipe from the Air Filter with the Stepper Motor on top was the 'Carb'. (Which I thought from a previous post, needed some cleaning attention.)
Looks like the can of Carb Cleaner I picked up the other day may spend a bit of time on the top shelf.

Will try and get it onto the A35 Bridport Bypass tonight before the weekend.

Cheers again.
Mike
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Re: Hello. >>> 1993 Rover 820i

Post by traineefarmer » Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:21 am

Hi Mike,

You're halfway there. The bit with the stepper motor on is the throttle body, which meters air into the engine. By measuring engine speed, intake vacuum/pressure, throttle opening and a few other parameters the ECU knows exactly how much fuel to squirt with the injectors.

Depending which generation you are from this is either far simpler or more complicated than a carb, but does the same job of getting fuel and air mix into the engine at the right mix. But just like a carb, if anything is faulty or out of "adjustment" then the mixture is wrong and the engine wont run.

I think it was me who suggested removing and cleaning the throttle body with carb cleaner. It's still worth doing as there are some small bypass channels withing it that get full of gunk. Even if it doesn't solve the problem, at least it is a cheap fix.

I've read the work you've done so far - all good stuff, just don't forget to reset the ECU but disconnecting the battery for an hour or so after each "fix". This will make it forget adjustments it has made to compensate for any faults.

Don't give up. When an 800 is going well it is one of the best cars in the world.
Tom.

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Re: Hello. >>> 1993 Rover 820i

Post by scoobyh123 » Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:13 am

Ah! I see! In that case Mike by your definition the carb does need cleaning - see Toms post above. ^^^^^

Normally though if you have injection you don't have a carb as injection is a much more precise way of metering fuel into the engine. The only thing i know of that came close to mixing the two concepts was the Reece-Fish carburettor :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reece_Fish_Carburettor

http://www.mk1-performance-conversions. ... l_carb.htm

On the second link, there's a lot of different information on various forms of carb and injection. Most of it is from the late 60s when the Mini was in its hey-day of racing/modification but all the ideas/principles still hold true. If you click on the Reece-Fish info it takes you to another page where there are three more clickable photos.

Hopefully you'll find it at least a bit interesting and it should help explain the differences between injection and carburettors better than i can!

Meanwhile back to your 820i - Toms advice is excellent and as he mentions, after every possible "fix" you need to disconnect the battery (or remove fuse "S" ) for a while to clear the fault codes.

I have to confess though, it's beginning to sound almost as if it's simply suffering lack of use and the engine not being allowed to "stretch its legs". If the A35 is clear enough, give it a good ol' Italian decoke, i seem to recall a few stretches of dual carriageway on the A35 although they were on the other side of Dorchester from you. :wink: :D
Cheers,
Dave


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ThisIsMadeInEngland
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Re: Hello. >>> 1993 Rover 820i

Post by ThisIsMadeInEngland » Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:50 pm

Wow ?
Thanks Guys...... busy Sunday ahead.....But well worth it, at it seems there is an end game to being able to get this beast on the road with full confidence.
Mike
Bridport ~ British West Dorset
Rover 820i
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Rover 416 Tourer

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Re: Hello. >>> 1993 Rover 820i

Post by scoobyh123 » Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:49 pm

ThisIsMadeInEngland wrote:
Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:50 pm
Wow ?
Thanks Guys...... busy Sunday ahead.....But well worth it, at it seems there is an end game to being able to get this beast on the road with full confidence.
It'll be worth it when it's done Mike! ;) :D
Cheers,
Dave


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'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
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Re: Hello. >>> 1993 Rover 820i

Post by ThisIsMadeInEngland » Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:11 am

Hi Guys.

Would like to thank you for the all the support and PM's.

Just a quick update since the weekend.
Slight different problem prior to some of the changes and work completed.

As per Nick's post I have had a look/feel to try and find a throttle switch. No joy.

I took the car out on Sunday morning for a bit of blast on the bypass further to adding cleaners to the oil and petrol.

Unfortunately it stalls/cuts out at idle below 1K revs. So cutting out when pulling up to roundabouts, junctions and in traffic. Quite unsafe, so took it of the road.

Noticed after trying the 5 x 100% Throttle depressions within 20 seconds and leaving the key in postion 2.
I couldn't hear it, but just feel it, the stepper motor continued to vibrate every so slightly for over 15 minutes until I turned the key off.

So I think that maybe the area I need to give a little bit of thought as something seems to be forwarding some voltage to activate it.

All the best

Mike
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Re: Hello. >>> 1993 Rover 820i

Post by scoobyh123 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:54 pm

It sounds to me as if you've successfully reset the stepper motor Mike - others who know the T-series better than i do can confirm that. Might be worth giving it another blast up the A35 or similar to see if things have improved. :wink: :D
Cheers,
Dave


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