827 alternator

Moderators: guru, SJG

Post Reply [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable
austinpowers
Regular Visitor
Posts: 388
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2008 5:08 am
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

827 alternator

Post by austinpowers » Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:02 pm

Hi guys, i'm after an alternator for my 89 Sterling that i'm recommissioning :D

They're around 100 quid plus on eBay but i'd rather not pay that!! I did order a new one from buycarparts, but they're now saying it isn't in stock..

TIA
1989 Rover Sterling in Atlantic blue 35k miles. - Sold
2017 "special" edition in white
1990 Rover Vitesse manual - Sold
1990 Rover Sterling - Sold

deano
Rover Guru
Posts: 1287
Joined: Sun Jun 09, 2013 11:19 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: 827 alternator

Post by deano » Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:57 pm

Your looking about £150 New
and you hardly ever see a used one for sale.

They are quite often mixed up with the lesser 820 one which you can pick up for about 60 odd quid exchange but will be absolutely no good to you... some of the ones on ebay are incorrectly listed.

Even my local motor factor got it wrong at first, untill I took it off the car and showed them it.

I wish you luck :)
1993 Rover 827 SLI Fastback Mk2
1999 Rover 825 Sterling Saloon Mk2 (HGF)
------------------
Previously
1996 Rover 825 Sterling Coupe Mk2
1993 Rover 827 Sterling Saloon Mk2
1990 Rover 827 Sterling Saloon Mk1
1972 Rover P6 2000TC

User avatar
scoobyh123
Rover Guru
Posts: 12149
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:27 pm
Location: Next door to Top Gun, Suffolk
Contact:

Re: 827 alternator

Post by scoobyh123 » Tue Jul 26, 2016 10:40 pm

First question - are you 100% sure the alternator is faulty?

Have you checked the drive belt is tight?

Also what is the battery like? I've had times on mine when the battery has been on its way out and given false symptoms of a failing alternator.

Another thing to check - on the inner wing, just behind the suspension turret on the drivers side are 3 large round multiplugs. One of these carries the alternator field connection - without this connection the alternator has no "excitation" from the warning light so doesn't charge. It's worth disconnecting these multiplugs and squirting WD40 or contact cleaner in them then remaking/breaking them several times before finally remaking them - best to do this with the battery -ve/earth connection disconnected to save possibly damaging any ECUs etc.

Next is the green multiplug in the back of the alternator - check the condition of the connectors inside and maybe give that the WD40/contact cleaner treatment too. Check the main battery cable going to the alternator isn't frayed, broken or loose. Also check the underbonnet fuses including the large ones that are basically just strips of thin metal and all the screws that hold these.

Then check the earths - battery to body (just behind the battery on the inner wing) and to the bellhousing.

If you find nothing untoward with any of these checks, what are the symptoms?
Cheers,
Dave

'02 Honda CR-V SE Executive
'99 Jag S Type 3.0 V6 SE


Image
'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

austinpowers
Regular Visitor
Posts: 388
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2008 5:08 am
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: 827 alternator

Post by austinpowers » Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:38 pm

Cheers deano :) :p

Scooby, with the engine running i saw some sparks coming from inside and slight burning smell, so haven't bothered checking anything else, if i could repair i might have a go ( i replaced the rectifier on my Astra alternator) but trying to source one as a replacement then see if i can repair this one.

It was the end of day after sorting other bits and pieces so left it as is, but will investigate further when i look at it again.

Thanks for the comprehensive write up though :)
1989 Rover Sterling in Atlantic blue 35k miles. - Sold
2017 "special" edition in white
1990 Rover Vitesse manual - Sold
1990 Rover Sterling - Sold

User avatar
traineefarmer
Rover Guru
Posts: 1276
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:31 pm
Location: The executive parking bay.
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: 827 alternator

Post by traineefarmer » Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:45 pm

austinpowers wrote:with the engine running i saw some sparks coming from inside and slight burning smell, so haven't bothered checking anything else
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Reminds me of a time when I was sent out to investigate a fault on a waste processing machine at a University. The site manager was desperate to get the thing going again and was standing next to me when I opened the main control panel to reveal several of the contactors and most of the wiring on fire. She immediately asked me (without a trace of sarcasm) "Do you think you can find out why it stopped working?".
Tom.

'97 Vitesse Coupe
'03 XC90 D5

User avatar
scoobyh123
Rover Guru
Posts: 12149
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:27 pm
Location: Next door to Top Gun, Suffolk
Contact:

Re: 827 alternator

Post by scoobyh123 » Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:30 pm

austinpowers wrote:Cheers deano :) :p

Scooby, with the engine running i saw some sparks coming from inside and slight burning smell, so haven't bothered checking anything else, if i could repair i might have a go ( i replaced the rectifier on my Astra alternator) but trying to source one as a replacement then see if i can repair this one.

It was the end of day after sorting other bits and pieces so left it as is, but will investigate further when i look at it again.

Thanks for the comprehensive write up though :)
Sounds like the brushes and/or slip rings are dirty or worn. A bit more running should self clean them if that's all it is. If memory serves they are stainless slip rings in Nippon Denso alternators (or at least the ones i've rebuilt in the past) so unlikely to be worn slip rings.
Sadly there are few, if any rebuild parts for the unit fitted to the 827/KA4 Legend as they are the only two cars (in the UK anyway) that use this alternator. Even in the USA where they fitted the 2.7 to the Accord coupé based on the 600 the alternator was slightly different and as for the NSX (C30 type engine, bigger version of the C27), that had an alternator similar to those fitted on the C32 and C35 engines as fitted to the later Legends.
The good news is, there are certain Accord and Shuttle alternators whose innards can be built into the 827 brackets/casing. The better news is the smaller of the two is at least 85A output and the larger is 90A - the standard 827 alternator is a measly 70A output.

If you're not in a hurry, i'll be doing a write up with lots of pretty pictures sometime in the near future (like next month) about building a set of Accord/Shuttle alternator internals into the 827 brackets as the alternator on my Sterling has been suspect for a while and recently become a problem.
traineefarmer wrote:
austinpowers wrote:with the engine running i saw some sparks coming from inside and slight burning smell, so haven't bothered checking anything else
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Reminds me of a time when I was sent out to investigate a fault on a waste processing machine at a University. The site manager was desperate to get the thing going again and was standing next to me when I opened the main control panel to reveal several of the contactors and most of the wiring on fire. She immediately asked me (without a trace of sarcasm) "Do you think you can find out why it stopped working?".
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

https://youtu.be/eawL6aJ2nBc

She had obviously never heard of Arthur Brown then! ^^^^^ :wink: :lol:
Cheers,
Dave

'02 Honda CR-V SE Executive
'99 Jag S Type 3.0 V6 SE


Image
'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

austinpowers
Regular Visitor
Posts: 388
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2008 5:08 am
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: 827 alternator

Post by austinpowers » Thu Jul 28, 2016 8:40 am

Dave, the write up would be great, would the worn brushes/slip rings cause the alternator to stop charging and the battery light to illuminate?

It's doing both, shame as it gave a nice healthy 14.3v output before it died..
1989 Rover Sterling in Atlantic blue 35k miles. - Sold
2017 "special" edition in white
1990 Rover Vitesse manual - Sold
1990 Rover Sterling - Sold

deano
Rover Guru
Posts: 1287
Joined: Sun Jun 09, 2013 11:19 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: 827 alternator

Post by deano » Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:56 am

Just out of interest....
Is it worth keeping my old 827 alternator ?
Is a rebuild worth doing ?

Because the spares shop wanted exchange on the £60 unit and when they finally realised the error and repriced the correct one (approx 150) No exchange was needed or offered....
1993 Rover 827 SLI Fastback Mk2
1999 Rover 825 Sterling Saloon Mk2 (HGF)
------------------
Previously
1996 Rover 825 Sterling Coupe Mk2
1993 Rover 827 Sterling Saloon Mk2
1990 Rover 827 Sterling Saloon Mk1
1972 Rover P6 2000TC

User avatar
scoobyh123
Rover Guru
Posts: 12149
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:27 pm
Location: Next door to Top Gun, Suffolk
Contact:

Re: 827 alternator

Post by scoobyh123 » Thu Jul 28, 2016 1:00 pm

austinpowers wrote:Dave, the write up would be great, would the worn brushes/slip rings cause the alternator to stop charging and the battery light to illuminate?

It's doing both, shame as it gave a nice healthy 14.3v output before it died..
Yes - the battery light is simply an indication that no charge is coming out of the unit. It works slightly differently to a lot of alternators where if the brushes go, no circuit is completed so the charge/battery light doesn't illuminate at all but it still doesn't charge. The voltage regulator which controls the field current through the slip rings/brushes/rotor also controls the warning light but independently.

There could of course be another fault causing this, i'm only suggesting the brushes as the probably cause. However, 14.3V is a smidge low, it should be 14.4V really - i know that's splitting hairs but it could be a pointer.
deano wrote:Just out of interest....
Is it worth keeping my old 827 alternator ?
Is a rebuild worth doing ?

Because the spares shop wanted exchange on the £60 unit and when they finally realised the error and repriced the correct one (approx 150) No exchange was needed or offered....
Definitely worth keeping your old one Dean - i don't know 100% for sure that the rebuild using Accord/Shuttle internals is possible yet (all the theory, dimensions and research i've done not only on Nippon Densos site but a few others as well says it should) but i'll give it a damned good go! Until then, it's certainly worth hanging onto! :wink: :D
Cheers,
Dave

'02 Honda CR-V SE Executive
'99 Jag S Type 3.0 V6 SE


Image
'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

Post Reply
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests