MK 1 1990 827 battery earth lead

[projectxx]

Hi All,
I've been looking without success for the above, my car has all sorts of electrical gremlins (amongst other things!) and I'm beginning to consider breaking it, which is sad really, as it's a manual sterling, which turns 27 this Wed, I've owned it over 10 years, only let me down twice!.

[scoobyh123]

Just to avoid confusion, when you say you've been looking without success, do you mean looking on the car for the earth lead or looking for a new one online, in motor factors or similar?

If you're looking on the car, it runs from the battery -ve terminal firstly to the bodywork on the inside wing (just behind the battery on the inner wing and sort of under the ABS modulator if equipped with ABS) then continues to the bellhousing usually in the general area of the starter motor which can be seen if you remove the N/S/F wheel and arch liner and look in from the passenger side towards the O/S wheel.

That said, when you say "electrical gremlins", what sort of problems? Some might be down to a component, soldering or some other fault rather than a bad earth. Please list as many of the problems as you can as sometimes they can be related, might help in tracking down the real problem assuming it always starts well.

[projectxx]

Hi Dave,
Thanks for your reply, I'm looking to obtain the part itself. Problem #1 is without warning when I start the engine it immediately starts & cuts out, this I must say is very sporadic, could be fine for weeks, then do it several times in one day, when it occurs I wait about 5 mins then it will start.

Problem #2. is with ignition on and key turned to start-silence, this problem I think may be an immobiliser issue, as I simply lock/unlock with the key and hey presto it starts.

Problem #3 is occasionally immediately after starting the PGM-FI light will flash on and off whilst the idle is very erratic, if I switch off and re-start, all is fine. (I like to start the car after the PGM-FI light has gone out).

Problem#4 The most recent development, turn on the ignition and the rev counter & speedo dials 'climb', engine won't start, the first time this happened, it did it a few times then started.
Just last Sunday it did the 'dial' thing and when I tried to start the engine, it gave the impression of a flat battery, door light really dim, I eventually had to call the RAC out, and the guy checked the battery it was fine, in the end he pulled on the battery earth and the rad fans came on, so I checked the dash, had ignition lights, it started and drove great all the way home!!, Got home, wouldn't re start, took out battery tray, took bolt fixing off at inner wing cleaned everything, all put back but wouldn't start, the strange thing was I was getting electrical noises from the relays in the engine fuse box, changed a few but no luck. Eventually it started, left it a day and tried started about 5 times in a row fine, didn't want to risk taking it out!

The other issue is the drivers window will lower by itself whenever it wants, sometimes if I flash the lights, there's huge electrical interference almost cuts out the car, and you hear the engine through the radio, even heard it through the door trim, radio off.
I have replaced the fusebox and window switch pack, HT leads, dizzy, rotor.

So that's par for the course for an 800, can't complain used everyday, kept outside and cost £500 in 2007.

[scoobyh123]

That's not as bad as i was expecting!

Problem #1 : http://www.marklamond.co.uk/tech-honda/ ... -relay.htm
There's a good chance that's the cause.

Problem #2 : If memory serves correctly there are some microswitches either on the drivers door lock barrel or in the central locking actuator or both. Give these a clean with contact cleaner/lubricant. Should sort that one out.

Problem #3 : Not sure! I'd not come across this until recently then my Sterling did it. Only ever done it once in the 9 years i've had it and it was after the battery had gone flat and the car not used for a while. However i'd used it the previous day without a problem.

Problem #4 : Sounds very like it could be the earth lead. Also the wire link fuses in the underbonnet fusebox have a habit of corroding and sometimes they break which can't be seen until you try to inspect them. Could well be worth going through all the connections to these, cleaning them all and checking for any broken links.
When you're done, with the battery reconnected, pull fuse "S" for at least 5 minutes to clear all and any fault codes from the PGM-Fi, EAT and (if fitted) ABS ECUs.



Problem #5 sounds as if it could well be earth related - also check the earth strap from the slam panel to the front cylinder head.

Meanwhile if you have an autoelectricians anywhere near, remove the battery earth lead and use it as a sample to get them to make a new one up. I'm also going to look into doing the same

[projectxx]

Hi Dave,
Thanks for taking the time to reply and all of your advice and suggestions, I will look into the fusible links and fuse 'S'.
I think it'd be a good idea to replace the slam panel earth and the battery earth.
Kind regards

[scoobyh123]

You're welcome - let me know how you get on?

Could be useful for both of us especially if my Sterling does the "hunting from cold" thing again.

I've got a strange one on my Coupé at the moment as well, turn the key to start, let it go and the starter keeps running. The key has already sprung back to the "2" position though...........
Strangely as soon as it fires the starter stops running. Almost as if it has some prototype automatic starter.........

[projectxx]

Hi Dave,
I'll let you know for sure, your coupe issue sounds strange.
Regards

[scoobyh123]

It is a bit odd, it points to a mechanical problem within the switch but it's odd the starter disengages as soon as the engine starts.
Might try another switch and see if things improve...............

[Richard Moss]

One group member had a problem with intermittent electrical problems which turned out to be a break in the 12v lead between the battery and the main fusebox. The break was inside the insulation, right where the lead went into the bottom of the fusebox itself.

A new lead cured the problem and I would imagine that any half decent motor factor could suply a suitable earth or 12v lead for any car

[projectxx]

Thanks for everyone's advice, just to update I went to a reputable auto electrician, and he inspected both leads (battery earth lead & short one from front slam panel)and declared them sound.
So I cleaned things a little more, refitted, and all was well, no gremlins, bliss for about 10 days (umpteen starts!)until today
Started fine today, short drive, attempted to start car around an hour later, old tricks again.., wiggled batt earth, ignition came on but wouldn't start, put a jump lead on batt neg to engine started fine and ran, but cut out shortly after I removed it, got it started again, jump removed and got it home, had to keep the revs up, and an electric window went down itself and loads of electrical grunts and a loud whine through the radio and door trims, possibly from elec window motors.
So removed earth lead completely from the car, reconnected battery using jump lead as earth, started and ran fine 3 times, no whining noises, so reckon it must be that bloody earth lead
So I'm going to replace this lead in the next few days, just can't understand why it was fine for 10 days, then all this. Could it really be that the wire has degraded?

[scoobyh123]

Thanks for everyone's advice, just to update I went to a reputable auto electrician, and he inspected both leads (battery earth lead & short one from front slam panel)and declared them sound.
So I cleaned things a little more, refitted, and all was well, no gremlins, bliss for about 10 days (umpteen starts!)until today
Started fine today, short drive, attempted to start car around an hour later, old tricks again.., wiggled batt earth, ignition came on but wouldn't start, put a jump lead on batt neg to engine started fine and ran, but cut out shortly after I removed it, got it started again, jump removed and got it home, had to keep the revs up, and an electric window went down itself and loads of electrical grunts and a loud whine through the radio and door trims, possibly from elec window motors.
So removed earth lead completely from the car, reconnected battery using jump lead as earth, started and ran fine 3 times, no whining noises, so reckon it must be that bloody earth lead
So I'm going to replace this lead in the next few days, just can't understand why it was fine for 10 days, then all this. Could it really be that the wire has degraded?

Yes, it's highly likely the wire in the cable has degraded. The one problem with getting them inspected is (as i'm sure the auto electrician in question should point out) you can inspect them on the bench, test them even with an arbitrary load and declare them sound. However what you can't recreate on the bench is the heat, vibration and current invovled. Maybe you could create two out of the three but without the third it's not a "real world" test. As such something may well be missed.

In other words, the best test-bench for any component from a car is the car itself. The fact the leads were giving trouble in the first place is why i suggested renewing them all - if one has deteriorated to this extent, so have the others!

[Richard Moss]

I would consider adding an additional earth lead between the engine and and the battery

[SJG]

I would consider adding an additional earth lead between the engine and and the battery

I did this on my car too. This wouldn't be a more general earthing problem would it?

[Nuts4my827]

Earth leads are easily obtainable from Most motor factors. Swap it out, or add as an extra.

Where are you located??