Brad's Renault Grand Espace V6 24v.

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Very Tall Brad
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Brad's Renault Grand Espace V6 24v.

Post by Very Tall Brad » Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:24 pm

This grey one is a 7 seater but I usually use it with the middle row of three removed. It is like a stretch limo inside.

The thing to remember with these cars - this is my fourth in 15 years - is that they are very expensive to run, I reckon more pricey than anything else you can realistically buy secondhand. The last major service was in 2009 and cost £2800. It has had a further £900 of servicing since.

It is a V6 3 litre auto. It had a misfire but, knowing these cars well, I took a gamble and bought it. As suspected, the spark plugs are in deep wells and the front three are susceptible to water ingress. I removed the engine cover and the triple coil pack and cleaned out the spark plug wells - there was about two cupfulls of water in there causing shorting, I guess. Reassembled, with a new air filter, two new pollen filters and a new fuel filter and it was 100% again.

I have changed the tailgate seal (£90) and found a replacement parcel shelf and roller blind as these were missing. Again, not cheap at £100 used.

One pair of front tyres, a pair of new number plates, a carpet steam and vax and I used it last Tuesday. I got precisely 5 miles before needing the RAC. The transmission disappeared. No 1st, 2nd. But weak 3rd and very good reverse. I think the fluid levels are low.

The autobox is a German ZF unit but it is sealed for life. There is no filler cap, no dipstick but there is a drain plug! To refill or check the level is a Renault technicians job. However, I thought I would try and have a crack at it myself and drifted around the interwebnet asking for advise. I got plenty but none was of use. So I removed everything I could - battery and tray, air cleaner system, undertrays to get a better look.

I am stumped.

I have ordered the Renault dealer workshop CD discs for this car and these should be at my house tomorrow. At present, it is sitting patiently before getting a good thrashing.

Despite all of this and the lousy level of interest that Renault UK or their dealers have for the customer, I really do love these cars. Range Rover? No thanks. Jeep? Nah. Anything else lofty and brutish? I think not. The Espace is just as addictive and as much of a financial drain as pure H.

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Re: Brad's Renault Grand Espace V6 24v.

Post by Jango » Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:11 pm


There is no filler cap, no dipstick but there is a drain plug!

No obvious refill point......did you see 'wheeler dealers' last week?

They were messing around with a Boxster, same issue. It had a tube level thing around the drain plug that set the oil level, pump new oil in from the drain plug 'til it overflows.......odd but effective.

Best look it up on iplayer or whatever as that will explain it better than I can here!
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Re: Brad's Renault Grand Espace V6 24v.

Post by Richard Moss » Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:31 am

ZF gearboxes tend to be rather complicated on the drain/refill front.
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Re: Brad's Renault Grand Espace V6 24v.

Post by 47p2 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:40 am

Lots of hype and myths about the sealed for life ZF boxes.

My findings is that they are not complicated to drain and refill.

There are a couple of plugs on the side of the box, one to drain (will be at the lowest point) and one to fill (usually above the sump)

If you are going to change the ATF it is recommended that the filter should be changed at the same time, so a new sump gasket will also be required.

This procedure is best done whilst the gearbox is warm
1. Remove the fill plug, some fluid will come out so have a basin ready to catch the spill out
2. Remove the drain plug and allow to drain into a basin for 15 minutes
3. Remove the sump taking care as more fluid will be sitting in the bottom and will spill out
4. Remove the filter.
5. Leave the sump off for another 20 minutes to allow the drips from internal parts to stop
6. Fit new filter
7. Refit sump using new gasket
8. Refit drain plug
9. Fill gearbox to fill level
10. Start engine and move gear lever through gears, holding in each position for a few seconds
11. With engine still running top up ATF, it should take about another 1-1.5 litres
12. Allow gearbox temperature to come up to recommended temp, with the engine still running and gearbox in neutral check level and top up if required (ATF should be just dripping out of the level plug and no more)
13. Refit filler level plug


You will not be able to remove all the ATF, what is in the torque convertor will stay there so you will probably manage to have about a 60% change, then in a couple of weeks it is worth draining the sump and refilling to change the fluid again. This will change another 50% or so, so in theory your gearbox should now be around 80% clean


It sounds like a bit of a faff, but highly recommended.

There is now a machine that will flush out old fluid, cost in the region of £300-£400 to do the procedure (Google gearbox megaflush)

One word of warning...Make sure you only use the correct ATF fluid for your gearbox. There are so many different types nowadays and a lot of them are not compatible with each other
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Re: Brad's Renault Grand Espace V6 24v.

Post by Richard Moss » Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:47 am

The one on my Alfa166 specified at you could only check/ top up when the transmission oil was at a specified temperature - something daft like 72 degrees. It had a filler plug on the side and, if I recall, you were supposed to remove that, start the car, warm it up until the transmission ol hit the required temp and then if it wasn't starting to run out of the filler, you had to add ATF until it did! Bonkers
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Re: Brad's Renault Grand Espace V6 24v.

Post by 47p2 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:10 am

If you want/need to check the ATF level start the engine BEFORE removing the level plug. Otherwise you will loose about a litre of fluid...
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Re: Brad's Renault Grand Espace V6 24v.

Post by Richard Moss » Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:58 pm

The Alfa is long gone, thankfully :)
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Re: Brad's Renault Grand Espace V6 24v.

Post by Very Tall Brad » Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:28 pm

Thanks for the replies, especially yours, John.

There is no filler plug or diptick or level plug on this transmission. Also, there is no sump pan to remove, as on conventional transmissions.

Very late last night, I downloaded the Renault technicians update for my car from 1999 which centres on the way this tranny is drained and refilled. It is extremely complex and involves filling via the tachometer housing atop the transmission. This is at the rear of the unit deply hidden behind the scuttle. The Renault Workshop manual for this car fails to include how the tachometer housing is removed so it is a question of mirrors.

I also need to use only ESSO/MOBIL ATF "LT71141" which is not cheap. I need 8 litres minimum at about a tenner a litre.

The strainer is replaced elsewhere and looks likely I shall leave it well alone if a simple flush/change works.

I then need to change the fluid in the Final Drive.

When I look at this car, I understand how a gynaecologist or a dentist must feel.
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Re: Brad's Renault Grand Espace V6 24v.

Post by Very Tall Brad » Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:23 pm

This gets worse...

The genuine dealer Renault Workshop Manual states that the auto box is filled by removing the tachometer drive from the top of the transmission. These cars do not have a tachometer but the Laguna/Safrane/Citroen C5 (which all use the same transmission in 3 litre V6 versions) do!

I have downloaded the Citroen manual for the V6 C5 and this clearly shows where this tacho thingy is fitted. I have checked on mine and it is a welded cover plate!

Anyone got any matches?
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Re: Brad's Renault Grand Espace V6 24v.

Post by rovercoup » Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:14 pm

this may be a daft idea? and please say if it is. could you not (seeing as its knackered anyway) drill/holesaw a hole big enough to make your own filler plug in the welded plate? just a matter of tapping a thread and sealing with a blanking plug and copper washer.

obviously swarf would be the main concern. barring this do you want swan vesta or Englands glory
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Re: Brad's Renault Grand Espace V6 24v.

Post by Very Tall Brad » Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:13 pm

Good idea. One problem...access. The engine/transmission is huge and the space is tiny. The whole unit disappears deep under the windscreen/scuttle and I can only feel the access plate and see it using a mirror on a stick!

Swarf would be an issue, too, especially as there is no removeable sump to at least try and get it out the unit!

I have a price on a new transmission from Renault (this is a discounted price, too, as I know a man...etc) £4623 inc VAT all fitted.

I shall persevere and thank you for the thought you are also giving to this.
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Re: Brad's Renault Grand Espace V6 24v.

Post by threelitre » Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:51 pm

Can I assume it has got an oil cooler for the auto? In theory it should be possible to flush the transmission using the oil cooler connections. Basically you'll need to collect all the oil from the outlet and take care there is enough fresh oil flowing into the inlet - and the correct amount! As with a usual change, this will not change all of the oil in one go, but I have read that this is the way some specialists flush autos to clean them from old oil and dirt.

It may be relatively safe to let the engine pump out the gearbox oil in idle until no more oil is coming out (and then quickly shut it off!). Then measure the amount that has come out of the gearbox and replace with the same amount fresh oil which should be able to (slowly) run into the gearbox via one of the connections. Assuming there was no leak it should be fine.

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