Scoobys Dogmobile - Take 2!

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Re: Scoobys Dogmobile - Take 2!

Post by thamestyres » Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:25 pm

don't you just hate it when the dog eats the seats... lol.. regards ricky
Rover Sterling KV6 V.reg 4 tailpipes and rs5 wheels (sold) :shock:
home of the "Mad Maestro"
1935 morris 18/6, having a near end of life rejuvenation, xj6 running gear..

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Re: Scoobys Dogmobile - Take 2!

Post by scoobyh123 » Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:44 pm

Definitely Rick! Thankfully she's grown out of eating her surroundings now! That said there's a house in Harlow with some bricks missing! :lol:
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
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Re: Scoobys Dogmobile - Take 2!

Post by scoobyh123 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:32 pm

Things have been a bit quiet on the UAV (Urban Assault Vehicle aka Volvo) front recently. Treated it to a new set of HT leads from Rock Auto and an new air filter recently but have been having a bit of a problem with rough running, smell of petrol bad starting etc all of whic pointed to dirty fuel injectors.

Tried Redex and not much improvement, then someone on the Volvo forum reminded me of a Jeep Cherokee upgrade where the injectord from a Dodge/Chrysler neon are fitted in place of the originals. I told matey on the Volvo forum what i knew of that conversion and the benefits as i knew them, he decided to give it a go and when i deicded my injectors were past their best, i followed suit.

While doing some other general stuff, i recently noticed my air filter was as black as the ace of spades adn having found a nice BOGOF deal on ebay for £4.99 delivered per filter and get the second free if you order both at the same time, i bought 4 and fitted one - the rest are in my stash ready and waiting!

However, i've also been experiencing a strange fault recently. Strong smell of petrol when i open the car, pig to start, runs rough as a badgers behind, eventually clears but is generally a bit "lack-lustre". Suspecting the injectors, i added some Redex when i fueled up which seemed to improve matters - somewhat!

While changing the air filter, i noticed a strong smell of BP Ultimate coming out of the air inlet trunking to the throttle body. Shouldn't happen!

As such i came to the conclusion the injectors were well past their sell-by date, or given the pong, smell-by date! :lol: :lol:

After a bit more investigation and circumstantial (but strong) evidence, i decided to take the plunge and hunted for a set of six 0 280 156 045 injectors that among others, are fitted to the later 960 and a whole plethora of other cars.

The set i found first, at a very good price was from an Omega 3.2 V6 so i put in a Best Offer and a few days later, they landed.

Here's the story on them :


Firstly, big thanks to Phil for reminding me of this upgrade and secondly, for giving me the inspiration to do it on mine! Finally got round to doing it today, after the injectors landed the other day :

Image

Just to get a "base" figure, i went out the other day armed with my trusty Gunsons Gasteseter and took a reading at idle - i was expecting (hoping for!) 1%CO at idle as that's what i'd previously set it at last year just before the MoT.

Image

It showed 0.9%CO which could well be down to the nice new, clean, air filter! Then, for no apparent reason, it shot up to 2.6% and started running like a hatful of monkeys a***holes :

Image

In other words, how it's sometimes been running lately and stenching of petrol at the same time - if i've left the car alone for a while, it's been a pig to start (hot or cold) after that, especially if it stinks of fuel when i get in.

When i was doing the air filter i kept getting a whiff of BP Ultimate from the inlet trunking and to be honest, that was the final piece of the jigsaw for me. Told me one or more injectors are leaking when they shouldn't be - the high CO reading simply confirmed that!

Here's a close up of the squirty end of the new injectors - note the 4 spots - those are the pintles that inject the fuel. Only one on the old ones.

Image

Image

Third injector from the left, the pintle is partly withdrawn as if injecting - should be out! Proof positive my theory was correct!

Anyway, back to the actual job of replacing them!

First, i popped off the clips from the injectors, noticing that injectors 2, 3 and 4 were a bit tighter than the other three. More of this later! ;)

Image

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One bank of injectors disconnected ^^^^^ and the other bank :

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Right hand bank fuel rail unbolted from the inlet manifold :

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Left bank and FPR unbolted :

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New injectors ready to go in after giving the "O" rings a vital bit of lube to help them "slip in nicely" - oooooo-errrrrr missus! :lol: :P :lol:

Image

Right bank of new injectors in place :

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Left bank looked the same from the other side! :P :lol:

All bolts etc replaced (except one i dropped, it might surface one day unexpectedly but not a problem for now) and i decided that seeing as the new injectors had the grooves for the clips, i would fit them anyway - "belt & braces" so to speak.

Fired up and it coughed and spluttered a bit until the fuel rail had fully pressurised then it ran perfectly on all..................... errrrr............ five! :shock:

The problem was #3 injector - i hadn't quite pushed the injector connector plug fully home! :roll: Pushed it fully on, the click i heard previously thinking the wire clip was going over the lugs was in fact the wire clip popping off the lugs! D'oh!

Anyway, fired it up again and it ran nice and smooth on all 6, still slightly hesitant at first which i'm fairly sure was down to the injectors probably being a bit dry, then it smoothed out to smoother than it had been on the old injectors.

The "proper" test drive came at walkies time. At first, it didn't seem that different then i pulled out of the cul-de-sac i live in and tickled the loud pedal how i normally would to get to the next junction. I don't usually have to brake for that junction, just ease up on the loud pedal - 'nuff said! :shock:

Being a bit more gentle, at least until i had room to be a bit more adventurous without speed humps, potholes and pedestrians getting in the way, i noticed it was much smoother and i now had throttle response - instantly!
Before it always responded but was a case of sending the engine a polite request by carrier pigeon and hoping! Now it's much more "now if not sooner".

Generally speaking it's much smoother and i can make better progress at lighter throttle openings. The most impressive bit is what i've decided to call the "wall of torque".
Being a 90 degree V6, it always was a torquey unit but now it feels like all the torque is available at much lower engine speeds. It feels like no matter what or when, firstly it responds instantly and secondly, it's much livelier because of the better torque delivery.

This should (eventually) translate into better fuel economy, for now that "wall of torque" is incredibly addictive! :D :D :D :twisted: 8)

For those that are wondering, mine hasn't taken time to re-learn fuel trims etc because it has no Lambda sensor, no cat and no feedback system - all the improvement is simply down to the injectors!

I will check and if necessary adjust the CO in a few days time once the injectors have bedded in a bit. Next job on the agenda is the valve clearances, it's sounding a wee bit tappety! :wink: :D
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
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'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

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Re: Scoobys Dogmobile - Take 2!

Post by scoobyh123 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:08 pm

As i hadn't checked the CO after fitting the new injectors, today gave me a good time to check it. Took the car for a spin with the Gastester in the back, warming up on my jump-pack.

Calibrated it before starting :

Image

Then shoved the probe up one of the tailpipes :

Image

:eek:

Then the electric cooling fan kicked in :

Image

:eek: :eek:

Next, i tried something else :

Image

:eek: :eek: :eek:

That's a tad high at 6.7%! :err: Only to be expected as i'd pulled the vac hose off the FPR and plugged it - first so i could check the FPR would richen the mixture when vacuum was removed, second so i could check for any fuel leaking from the FPR and third to eliminate the FPR from the process of working out why the CO level was now much higher.

Refitting the vacuum hose, i turned my attention to the thermostatically controlled flap valve on the air cleaner. Given it was a warm day today, i would have expected the flap valve to mainly pull air from the colder side, not from the hot side where air is passed over the exhaust manifold first.

Wasn't happening that way, i removed the hot air trunking from the air filter end and noted the CO dropped by at least 1% - difficult to say exactly how much over that as the cooling fan kicked in again.

Then i looked at the mixture screw on the MAF. In the past, someone had drilled two holes in the plug on it and when i checked the CO for the MoT last year, it didn't need adjustment. Normally they won't need adjustment unless something is out of kilter somewhere so this got me thinking.

As the CO level drops and the engine runs extremely lean, this can push the HC content up a lot. My guess is that over successive years with the old injectors getting a bit worse each year that the HC level went up due to some cylinders (those with the duff injectors) weren't firing properly so each year, the mixture was tweaked richer until the duff cylinders were running right.

Now all the injectors are squirting better, this is no longer a problem and the CO ends up higher than it should be.

After turning the screw on the MAF 7 1/2 turns anti-clockwise, i finally got there :

Image

As a final check that the calibration hadn't wandered or been knocked by me :

Image

Yes, i know - it's only at 1.8% in that pic and should be 2% for the air calibration point but first it had swung there pretty quickly and experience with this Gastester tells me it does that then the last little bit can take a few minutes and secondly, by the time i'd shut the bonnet etc and come back, it was up to bang on 2% so i know i finally reached 1% approximately.

Driving home, the car felt even smoother and livelier but in a more progressive way. I'd done a 0-60 run on the way there, using a stopwatch app on my phone which i can reach without taking my hands off the wheel. On the way there, i got about 11 secs - not good! :(

On the way back, i did another but had forgotten to reset the stopwatch! It came up somewhere around the 8 second mark although i can't be too sure. As such i did another after resetting the stopwatch. Even after fluffing the start, i still got 0-66 in 9.47 so 0-60 would have been mid to low 8 seconds.

This concurs with how it felt during the 0-60 on the way to where i checked the CO - it felt good up to a certain point then felt like it was overfueling.

Anyway, aside from a precautionary check before the MoT, unless any other anomalies show up i think that's it on the fuel front for now! ;) :D
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
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zcar12
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Re: Scoobys Dogmobile - Take 2!

Post by zcar12 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:12 am

Lots of good work there Dave. It would have driven me nuts working out all the things that could have caused the problem. Full marks for persevering and cracking the nut. I bet it feels like a different car now.

I also have the exact same gas tester but I never found it to be all that accurate. It seems to take an absolute age to settle down to a steady reading.

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Re: Scoobys Dogmobile - Take 2!

Post by scoobyh123 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:38 am

Thanks Nick - it was pretty frustrating at times, especially after all the fuel leaks i had soon after getting the car! Then along comes another petrol pong and rough running - possibilities on that are endless to start with! :shock:

I literally had to just keep plodding on, adding more and more evidence to the pot and keep stirring it round in my mind until it took the shape of something recognisable. Even then, because of several curved balls along the way, i had my doubts for a while.

Then by serendipity someone mentioned the injector upgrade, got me thinking along slightly different lines and the final bit of the jigsaw dropped into place. A set of injectors came up cheap on fleabay so i bit the bullet and bought them.

You know the rest! :wink: :D
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
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'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

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Re: Scoobys Dogmobile - Take 2!

Post by CHR15E » Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:35 pm

More patience than me these days.

Guessing you're hoping for a few more years out of the car?
Chris
19 Vauxhall Astra 1.6T SRi Nav Estate
08 Vauxhall Astra 2.0T Design Twintop
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Previously owned 57 800s 2000-2012

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Re: Scoobys Dogmobile - Take 2!

Post by scoobyh123 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:14 pm

That's what i'm hoping Chris - quite a few more years in fact! No real reason why it shouldn't keep going for quite some time yet either!

After the tweaks to the MAF and the new injectors, besides performance being improved, it seems to be starting easier, both hot and cold. Might have been a fluke and i'm speaking too soon but time will tell. :wink: :D
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
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'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

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Re: Scoobys Dogmobile - Take 2!

Post by zcar12 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:16 pm

I should bloody well hope so Chri5e, given the amount of time and work Dave has put into that car. Thats the reason I still have my 820. Its to get some return on the work and money I have put into it. In 2008, my car required major repairs and I bit the bullet and spent the money. With hindsight, I should have driven the car to the bridge, collected some cash and walked away. It would have been cheaper. If hindsight was foresight, we could all be millionaires.

I remember talking to a business man once, who complained that no matter what he did, he rarely made any money. I suggested that perhaps, it was time to close the shutters and go work for someone else. His reply? "The trouble is, you get in so deep that you cant get out". Forty years ago and I still remember that.

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Re: Scoobys Dogmobile - Take 2!

Post by scoobyh123 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:33 pm

Thanks Nick - in fairness i'm not at the point where i'm in too deep to get out but it's in pretty good condition (especially for a 30 y/o) car and a very rare one at that, a lot less than 400 of them left last time i looked on "howmanyleft" although that isn't always definitive.

The sad thing is, the previous owner neglected it somewhat, more through ignorance than anything else although his diagnostic skills left a lot to be desired!

I'm pretty much there now (wherever "there" is!) in terms of getting it up together. A few days back i sorted the glovebox lamp (new LED lamp assembly, the original lampholder was missing! :roll: ) and while it was out, decided it would be a good time to fit the replacement A/C evaporator so that went in as well.

Now for the A/C, i just have to fit some R12 - R134a converter valves, replace the idler pulley bearing on the belt and get it regassed with the correct PAG oil for R134a and enough gas and then hope! That will be another job off the list!

Still be several jobs to do but none that stop it running or something functioning. Thing is, now it is up together, where could i get another car that is as comfortable, reliable, does what i need it to with everything done so i don't need to worry for a long time? :wink: :D
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
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'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

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Re: Scoobys Dogmobile - Take 2!

Post by zcar12 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:04 pm

If it is your kind of car, does everything that you want and does not cost you an arm and a leg in bills, then I agree, stick with it. Good ones are becoming increasingly hard to find. Nothing wrong with treating a car as just a consumer item, that is what they are for, to get you from A to B. But some folks go a but too far in that direction when it comes to essential maintenance. I worked with a man back in 2003, who had a very tidy 760 Estate and I once asked him how often he changed the oil. He had never changed it once in 5 years. He said that he just topped it up once in a while. I was speechless!

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Re: Scoobys Dogmobile - Take 2!

Post by scoobyh123 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:46 pm

Sounds about right! When i picked mine up the guy said he'd had the oil changed recently - i found the receipt and it was 4 years previously! :shock: The oil filter was also blocked which didn't help.

I don't mind going a little over the top to protect and preserve this one as the 760 is now very rare and out of those, most are 2.3 4-pot turbos, i think there's only about 80 V6s left.

I need an estate for various reasons and there's not much else on the planet with the kind of space this has, it's got all the toys (or will have when i fit the cruise control) and is nearly as comfortable as the Rover.

If it ever gets to the point where it's no longer viable then i'll obviously have to reconsider but until then as long as it keeps going, i'll keep looking after it. :wink: :D
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
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'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

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Re: Scoobys Dogmobile - Take 2!

Post by CHR15E » Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:30 am

zcar12 wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:16 pm
I should bloody well hope so Chri5e, given the amount of time and work Dave has put into that car. Thats the reason I still have my 820. Its to get some return on the work and money I have put into it. In 2008, my car required major repairs and I bit the bullet and spent the money. With hindsight, I should have driven the car to the bridge, collected some cash and walked away. It would have been cheaper. If hindsight was foresight, we could all be millionaires.
All been there. I've scrapped/sold cars I wish I'd kept and spent money on. I've also spent on cars I wish I'd sold/scrapped. :D

Currently in that position with my Mondeo. Spent too much to sell it but I hate the gearbox so as soon as I find a Jeep as per the other thread I'm selling it. Well at least going to try.

I guess if you like the car then the cost isn't so bad. Far worse when you've spent out and aren't happy with what you have.
Chris
19 Vauxhall Astra 1.6T SRi Nav Estate
08 Vauxhall Astra 2.0T Design Twintop
02 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4.7 V8 HO

Previously owned 57 800s 2000-2012

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Re: Scoobys Dogmobile - Take 2!

Post by scoobyh123 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:58 am

There's also the question of where you draw the line to define "spending money" on a particular car as opposed to necessary expenditure that would happen with any car.

To my mind, normal service costs (plugs, filters, fluids, brake pads/shoes, tyres, wiper blades etc) are necessary expenditure so would happen with any other car.

Then you have the "not quite routine service but still wear out/fail eventually" sort of parts. Things in this category are things like track rod ends, Lambda sensors, ball joints, timing belts, shock absorbers, springs, brake discs etc.

I replaced the ball joints on the front because there was a nasty clonking that appeared to be coming from them, although it was difficult to be sure it was them as there didn't appear to be any play in them. They had to come off to replace the shocks and springs that were heavily worn so no extra work involved, just the cost of the ball joints which wasn't a lot. Cured the clonking though!

Last, you have the parts that tend to wear heavily in some ways to protect a more expensive component - almost on a "sacrificial" basis. On the 800s, it's the front anti roll bar drop links. On the Volvo it's the "spaceship bushes", better known as lower control arm to tie bar bushes. There are 2 per side and compared to all the other bushes (except maybe the drop links, they wear heavily on the Volvo too!) are almost suicidal in their wear rates.

Image

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BORG-AND-BEC ... 3415181094

I picked up a complete set of 4 with the spacer tube etc NOS on fleabay for about £7 i think it was. You can see why they're nicknamed "spaceship bushes"!

So far, all of that comes under running costs. Those things and similar depending on whatever car it is, are all bits and pieces that wear out and need renewing.

Out of everything i've renewed so far, the first item that hasn't come into any of those categories are the injectors. However they do wear, they get dirty, return springs inside get weak and so on, it's just not such a common thing to have to replace them. Go back 30 years to when the car was first made and many cars on the road at that time of a certain age were having new carbs fitted because they were worn. Those cars were probably less than 15 years old in most cases - we've all been there, ascending a pile of cars in the breakers yard to get the last remaining SU carb for a Mini/Marina or twin choke Weber for a Cortina/Capri or similar.

Scrapyards have changed, they now remove the bits, clean them (if you're lucky), put them in a box or Jiffy bag and post them out to you.
Instead of that 32/36 DGAV from a low mileage Cortina that you fought a war of attrition to retrieve from the automotive equivalent of Mount Everest, a neatly packed box of 6 injectors in Bubblewrap inside a sturdy cardboard box gets delivered by the postie.

The big question is, do the injectors come into normal running costs? If so, then so far, other than normal running costs, the Volvo has cost me nothing.

If you count them as an unusual expense then it's £45 and now i've sorted the mixture, they should pay for themselves.

The only thing so far i've bought that wasn't strictly necessary is the aftermarket cruise control. That's more for me than the car and arguably could be transferred to a different car in the future.

Depends how you look at it all really. Those who (like Nick said) view a car simply as an A to B tool and back again simply won't get it. The people that realise that the car is a machine and machines run best when they get routine maintenance will. :wink: :D
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
Image
'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

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CHR15E
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Re: Scoobys Dogmobile - Take 2!

Post by CHR15E » Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:57 pm

Just be glad you didn't need injectors for a modern diesel. :D

It's the one thing I haven't had to do on mine so far, of all the common problems they have.

Ballpark is £800-1000 as they need coding too. I'm definitely not doing that if they go before I sell it.

Rear shocks are pricey too if they failed with being self levellers. £500 each last time I checked.

Bill from Eurocarparts for a pair of rear shocks and a set of injectors!

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Chris
19 Vauxhall Astra 1.6T SRi Nav Estate
08 Vauxhall Astra 2.0T Design Twintop
02 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4.7 V8 HO

Previously owned 57 800s 2000-2012

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