825 Sterling
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825 Sterling
Well, car number 3 is on the driveway.
Bought a 60k miler in gold from eBay last week with a known head gasket failure.
Was intending to break the car but after running a hose over it the plans changed.
Spent an enjoyable day and a half stripping down the engine and removing the heads in preparation for a head gasket replacement.
Well, I. Have. Never. Ever. Seen as much congealed mayonnaise in an engine in my life, it's everywhere including a solid mass in the expansion tank.
The rad was absolutely blocked solid, it's a wonder the car ever ran at all.
So.....today was sludge day. I carefully blew out the sludge from the block having first watertight end the exposed cylinders using plenty of plastic and tape then wiped everything down. Cleaned out the hose pipes and thermostat and water pump.
Then after much head scratching turned my attention to the rad, I kid you not it was blocked solid, a hose in one end had no effect whatsoever.".......so as the sludge gets less viscous hot I ran a hose from the kitchen hot tap and filled up a rad sized water tank and left it in there to soak. Every hour I took it out and agitated it until I got the faintest of cross rad water flows. I then connected the hot water supply to one side via a bicycle inner tube (cut down and cable tied in place to the rad inlet and the hose) and left it to work its magic. Suffice it to say I now have a fully unblocked rad and as I put a whole bottle of fairy liquid in the water the sludge was completely broken down rather than stuck to everything .
I've ordered the gasket set and bolts from eBay, should be here Monday.
I know the MLG is the upgrade but I have opted for the older plastic seal type fir two reasons, firstly the MLG requires the heads to be skimmed, a cost I don't feel prepared to pay and secondly as the liners are beyond the tolerances of the MLG it's the recommended option anyway.
Engine wise the cam belts were replaced recently and not so long ago I think it's also had head gaskets done, badly, I'm thinking as the rear head bolts weren't nearly as tight as the front so I'm thinking the original bolts were reused and not tightened correctly.
Will take pictures of the car when I'm done and if anyone's interested I'll post up a how I did it guide.
Certainly I'd say to anyone with the right set of tools not to be afraid of the job, so far it's been a bit challenging (as so many bits require other bits to be removed first and I don't have an 825 manual just an 827) but Deffo fun.
Ohh, I even made my own cam locking tools.
One word of advice, never rotate the engine with the heads of......the liners lift
Bought a 60k miler in gold from eBay last week with a known head gasket failure.
Was intending to break the car but after running a hose over it the plans changed.
Spent an enjoyable day and a half stripping down the engine and removing the heads in preparation for a head gasket replacement.
Well, I. Have. Never. Ever. Seen as much congealed mayonnaise in an engine in my life, it's everywhere including a solid mass in the expansion tank.
The rad was absolutely blocked solid, it's a wonder the car ever ran at all.
So.....today was sludge day. I carefully blew out the sludge from the block having first watertight end the exposed cylinders using plenty of plastic and tape then wiped everything down. Cleaned out the hose pipes and thermostat and water pump.
Then after much head scratching turned my attention to the rad, I kid you not it was blocked solid, a hose in one end had no effect whatsoever.".......so as the sludge gets less viscous hot I ran a hose from the kitchen hot tap and filled up a rad sized water tank and left it in there to soak. Every hour I took it out and agitated it until I got the faintest of cross rad water flows. I then connected the hot water supply to one side via a bicycle inner tube (cut down and cable tied in place to the rad inlet and the hose) and left it to work its magic. Suffice it to say I now have a fully unblocked rad and as I put a whole bottle of fairy liquid in the water the sludge was completely broken down rather than stuck to everything .
I've ordered the gasket set and bolts from eBay, should be here Monday.
I know the MLG is the upgrade but I have opted for the older plastic seal type fir two reasons, firstly the MLG requires the heads to be skimmed, a cost I don't feel prepared to pay and secondly as the liners are beyond the tolerances of the MLG it's the recommended option anyway.
Engine wise the cam belts were replaced recently and not so long ago I think it's also had head gaskets done, badly, I'm thinking as the rear head bolts weren't nearly as tight as the front so I'm thinking the original bolts were reused and not tightened correctly.
Will take pictures of the car when I'm done and if anyone's interested I'll post up a how I did it guide.
Certainly I'd say to anyone with the right set of tools not to be afraid of the job, so far it's been a bit challenging (as so many bits require other bits to be removed first and I don't have an 825 manual just an 827) but Deffo fun.
Ohh, I even made my own cam locking tools.
One word of advice, never rotate the engine with the heads of......the liners lift
10 Rover 800's now and counting.
2x Mk1 827 Vitesse Fastbacks
3x 825 Coupe
Mk1 827 Sterling Saloon
825 Sterling Saloon
825 Sterling Fastback
820 Vitesse Coupe
820 O Series Mk1 Fastback.
2x Mk1 827 Vitesse Fastbacks
3x 825 Coupe
Mk1 827 Sterling Saloon
825 Sterling Saloon
825 Sterling Fastback
820 Vitesse Coupe
820 O Series Mk1 Fastback.
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Re: 825 Sterling
i dint see that on eBay mate, is it a saloon.
fleet now includes
89 827 sterling auto saloon grey dead and gone
90 827 sli auto saloon pulsar silver
91 820 i special edition flaming hell red
99 820 vitesse turbo sport manual nightfire rust sold to a better owner than i
89 827 sterling auto saloon grey dead and gone
90 827 sli auto saloon pulsar silver
91 820 i special edition flaming hell red
99 820 vitesse turbo sport manual nightfire rust sold to a better owner than i
- scoobyh123
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Re: 825 Sterling
Not only do the liners lift Jez but the whole engine can go out of alignment! The K-series (whether in 4-pot or V6 form) is basically a set of plates of various thickness sandwiched together with the head botls - that's why they're so damned long!
If your efforts with the gaskets etc don't bear fruit, i have a 61k (cam belts done at 51k) mile KV6 engine and manual box, think it needs a clutch but not sure, the engine is sweet anyway. It will need a few bits from your existing engine (alternator, PAS pump etc) but is basically all there apart from a few odds and ends and fired first time after bypassing the immobiliser temporarily. No oil in the water or vice versa, rad nice and clean when removed.
Hope you remembered to clean the heater matrix as well!
Good luck with it, hope it all works out ok!
If your efforts with the gaskets etc don't bear fruit, i have a 61k (cam belts done at 51k) mile KV6 engine and manual box, think it needs a clutch but not sure, the engine is sweet anyway. It will need a few bits from your existing engine (alternator, PAS pump etc) but is basically all there apart from a few odds and ends and fired first time after bypassing the immobiliser temporarily. No oil in the water or vice versa, rad nice and clean when removed.
Hope you remembered to clean the heater matrix as well!
Good luck with it, hope it all works out ok!
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Re: 825 Sterling
Hi guys.
Sorry not dropped in recently, been very busy but on leave at the moment so playing with cars again
The car was on a 3 day auction, readvertised as the first winner pulled out. It's really nice, not very rusty and no wet inside the car.
Regards the engine, we shall see. If it is scrap I'm not into it for a lot so I'm happy to have spent the time learning about the car anyway. Good shout on the engine, I'll let you know as its Deffo worth the effort of an engine swap. One thing though as its an auto is the engine still compatable with just a flywheel change?
May need some bits anyway so I'll be in touch soon.
Jez
Still not worked out how to quote so sorry for the group reply.
Sorry not dropped in recently, been very busy but on leave at the moment so playing with cars again
The car was on a 3 day auction, readvertised as the first winner pulled out. It's really nice, not very rusty and no wet inside the car.
Regards the engine, we shall see. If it is scrap I'm not into it for a lot so I'm happy to have spent the time learning about the car anyway. Good shout on the engine, I'll let you know as its Deffo worth the effort of an engine swap. One thing though as its an auto is the engine still compatable with just a flywheel change?
May need some bits anyway so I'll be in touch soon.
Jez
Still not worked out how to quote so sorry for the group reply.
10 Rover 800's now and counting.
2x Mk1 827 Vitesse Fastbacks
3x 825 Coupe
Mk1 827 Sterling Saloon
825 Sterling Saloon
825 Sterling Fastback
820 Vitesse Coupe
820 O Series Mk1 Fastback.
2x Mk1 827 Vitesse Fastbacks
3x 825 Coupe
Mk1 827 Sterling Saloon
825 Sterling Saloon
825 Sterling Fastback
820 Vitesse Coupe
820 O Series Mk1 Fastback.
- traineefarmer
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Re: 825 Sterling
I wasn't aware that a head skim was required to fit the MLS gasket. My understanding is that as long as the surfaces are flat and true with a good surface finish, the MLS can be used.
Tom.
'97 Vitesse Coupe
'03 XC90 D5
'97 Vitesse Coupe
'03 XC90 D5
- scoobyh123
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Re: 825 Sterling
It should be possible to change the flywheel to a driveplate without causing any problems Jez. Alternatively you could convert it to a manual.......... All the bits are there to convert to manual, not sure if the clutch just needs bleeding, a new slave or master cylinder or what.
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Re: 825 Sterling
Apparently so, otherwise the cr is reduced.traineefarmer wrote:I wasn't aware that a head skim was required to fit the MLS gasket. My understanding is that as long as the surfaces are flat and true with a good surface finish, the MLS can be used.
10 Rover 800's now and counting.
2x Mk1 827 Vitesse Fastbacks
3x 825 Coupe
Mk1 827 Sterling Saloon
825 Sterling Saloon
825 Sterling Fastback
820 Vitesse Coupe
820 O Series Mk1 Fastback.
2x Mk1 827 Vitesse Fastbacks
3x 825 Coupe
Mk1 827 Sterling Saloon
825 Sterling Saloon
825 Sterling Fastback
820 Vitesse Coupe
820 O Series Mk1 Fastback.
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Re: 825 Sterling
Like the auto as I already have a manual Sterling so I'd want it to stay auto.scoobyh123 wrote:It should be possible to change the flywheel to a driveplate without causing any problems Jez. Alternatively you could convert it to a manual.......... All the bits are there to convert to manual, not sure if the clutch just needs bleeding, a new slave or master cylinder or what.
Should come to you for some bits soon anyway Dave.
10 Rover 800's now and counting.
2x Mk1 827 Vitesse Fastbacks
3x 825 Coupe
Mk1 827 Sterling Saloon
825 Sterling Saloon
825 Sterling Fastback
820 Vitesse Coupe
820 O Series Mk1 Fastback.
2x Mk1 827 Vitesse Fastbacks
3x 825 Coupe
Mk1 827 Sterling Saloon
825 Sterling Saloon
825 Sterling Fastback
820 Vitesse Coupe
820 O Series Mk1 Fastback.
- scoobyh123
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Re: 825 Sterling
There was me thinking your other Sterling was auto! Seriously though i thought converting it to manual would give you the best of both worlds but it seems you're already there.
On a technical note, the only thing i can see being a problem would be the crank position sensor, which (i think) is mounted on the adaptor plate between engine and bell housing. As long as they're either in the same position between manual and auto or could be moved to accommodate the driveplate rather than the flywheel (don't see any reason why not) then this engine could be the solution.
Drop me a PM Jez with the list of bits you're after and i can confirm whether they are still there, in good condition or whatever.
On a technical note, the only thing i can see being a problem would be the crank position sensor, which (i think) is mounted on the adaptor plate between engine and bell housing. As long as they're either in the same position between manual and auto or could be moved to accommodate the driveplate rather than the flywheel (don't see any reason why not) then this engine could be the solution.
Drop me a PM Jez with the list of bits you're after and i can confirm whether they are still there, in good condition or whatever.
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Re: 825 Sterling
I do have another auto Sterling, but it's a mk1c 827 which I'm doing bodywork on (more to follow)scoobyh123 wrote:There was me thinking your other Sterling was auto! Seriously though i thought converting it to manual would give you the best of both worlds but it seems you're already there.
On a technical note, the only thing i can see being a problem would be the crank position sensor, which (i think) is mounted on the adaptor plate between engine and bell housing. As long as they're either in the same position between manual and auto or could be moved to accommodate the driveplate rather than the flywheel (don't see any reason why not) then this engine could be the solution.
Drop me a PM Jez with the list of bits you're after and i can confirm whether they are still there, in good condition or whatever.
Well the cars back on its wheels and I've done about 50 miles with no dramas and a steady temp gauge so I'm happy.
In all total time spent about 25 hours to do the job, now I'm familiar with the task I'd easy be able to knock 5or 6 hours off the job.
Total cost £97.00 head gasket and bolts
£4.50 B+Q Paint brush cleaner
£51.00 Car offset by having a full tank of gas which I shall use up in the next couple of days.
To anyone who has a head gasket problem and know which way round to hold a spanner I say get it done it's really not that difficult.
10 Rover 800's now and counting.
2x Mk1 827 Vitesse Fastbacks
3x 825 Coupe
Mk1 827 Sterling Saloon
825 Sterling Saloon
825 Sterling Fastback
820 Vitesse Coupe
820 O Series Mk1 Fastback.
2x Mk1 827 Vitesse Fastbacks
3x 825 Coupe
Mk1 827 Sterling Saloon
825 Sterling Saloon
825 Sterling Fastback
820 Vitesse Coupe
820 O Series Mk1 Fastback.
- traineefarmer
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Re: 825 Sterling
Well done on the gasket change. That is a job that most owners seem terrified of.
At 25 hours to do the job, it's easy to see why when people approach garages with hourly rates of £40/hr upwards, they often take the decision to scrap them.
At 25 hours to do the job, it's easy to see why when people approach garages with hourly rates of £40/hr upwards, they often take the decision to scrap them.
Tom.
'97 Vitesse Coupe
'03 XC90 D5
'97 Vitesse Coupe
'03 XC90 D5
- scoobyh123
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Re: 825 Sterling
What Tom said ^^^^ - i hope the liners moving when you turned the crank hasn't broken their seal with the block.
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Re: 825 Sterling
Its how long that job lasts is what I'm thinking.
£97 for gaskets and bolts and that is it ?
Did you not even get the heads checked ?
I hope it does last and for that cost just trying would be enough amusement for me as the hours don't really count when you enjoy the result.
I'd say you saved it by getting your finger out sharpish as i would have thought that the mayo would have also made its way around all of the oil ways.
By getting it done quickly you have saved them being permanently blocked I'd say as the corrosion would have started to bite and the oil pressure may not have been strong enough to clear them.
Personally I'd change the oil and filter again before you refill the petrol tank just to make sure all the crap is out.
Just my opinion.
£97 for gaskets and bolts and that is it ?
Did you not even get the heads checked ?
I hope it does last and for that cost just trying would be enough amusement for me as the hours don't really count when you enjoy the result.
I'd say you saved it by getting your finger out sharpish as i would have thought that the mayo would have also made its way around all of the oil ways.
By getting it done quickly you have saved them being permanently blocked I'd say as the corrosion would have started to bite and the oil pressure may not have been strong enough to clear them.
Personally I'd change the oil and filter again before you refill the petrol tank just to make sure all the crap is out.
Just my opinion.
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Re: 825 Sterling
1000 miles in now and all seems well.gyrobird wrote:Its how long that job lasts is what I'm thinking.
£97 for gaskets and bolts and that is it ?
Did you not even get the heads checked ?
I hope it does last and for that cost just trying would be enough amusement for me as the hours don't really count when you enjoy the result.
I'd say you saved it by getting your finger out sharpish as i would have thought that the mayo would have also made its way around all of the oil ways.
By getting it done quickly you have saved them being permanently blocked I'd say as the corrosion would have started to bite and the oil pressure may not have been strong enough to clear them.
Personally I'd change the oil and filter again before you refill the petrol tank just to make sure all the crap is out.
Just my opinion.
It's had 2 oil changes now plus filters.
I don't drive it hard so here's hoping I get a few miles out of it before it does go again. Re head check, it's always a gamble but as the engine hadn't overheated I didn't think economies of scale justified the expense.
And it's like you say, the fun was really in the fixing, I'm not scared of the cars now at all and had fun to boot.
10 Rover 800's now and counting.
2x Mk1 827 Vitesse Fastbacks
3x 825 Coupe
Mk1 827 Sterling Saloon
825 Sterling Saloon
825 Sterling Fastback
820 Vitesse Coupe
820 O Series Mk1 Fastback.
2x Mk1 827 Vitesse Fastbacks
3x 825 Coupe
Mk1 827 Sterling Saloon
825 Sterling Saloon
825 Sterling Fastback
820 Vitesse Coupe
820 O Series Mk1 Fastback.
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