Alucard7002 - 1997 Mk2b 820 Vitesse Fastback - Pewter Grey

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Re: Alucard7002 - 1997 Mk2b 820 Vitesse Fastback - Pewter Grey

Post by scoobyh123 » Wed Aug 24, 2016 1:31 am

Without wanting (or intending) to sound smug, every time i'm reminded about the Mk2b MEMS controlled cooling fan i'm glad i still have the old fashioned temperature switches mounted in the radiator!

There is a dual temperature switch (think it's for either an Omega, Scorpio or maybe both) that screws into a particular coolant hose adaptor that will fit in the top hose. This switch operates at 95 and 105 degrees for the low and high temperature switches and if i ever owned a later car, i'd almost certainly go down this route purely for reliability and the "easy bypass" if one or other of the switches failed.

I found these items when i looked into fitting a late manual radiator to one of mine with a separate oil cooler for the auto box fluid. Fairly simple and effective way of getting round the problem i reckon! :wink: :D
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Re: Alucard7002 - 1997 Mk2b 820 Vitesse Fastback - Pewter Grey

Post by Dickie524 » Wed Aug 24, 2016 9:10 am

Tell me more about the low and high temperature switching Dave - is that why the CTS has two wires (assuming it's earthed through its body).

I'm wondering whether one of those wires has failed on mine.

Bearing in mind mine only just creeps over the emissions threshold too. We could start a new thread rather than filling up Dusan's resto thread here if you wish!
Richard
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Re: Alucard7002 - 1997 Mk2b 820 Vitesse Fastback - Pewter Grey

Post by traineefarmer » Wed Aug 24, 2016 12:49 pm

The CTS has two wires because it is basically a thermistor to give MEMS a reading for engine temperature. MEMS uses its software to determine the temperature to switch the fan on. There seems to be some discrepancy over whether or not late cars have two speed fans. I'm pretty certain than mine only runs at one speed, but there could well be a fault I'm not aware of causing this.

I wonder whether your fault lies within the MEMS ECU.
Tom.

'97 Vitesse Coupe
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Re: Alucard7002 - 1997 Mk2b 820 Vitesse Fastback - Pewter Grey

Post by Dickie524 » Wed Aug 24, 2016 2:01 pm

Hmm, possible - I have a spare so will try a swap. (along with fob and immob etc).
Richard
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Re: Alucard7002 - 1997 Mk2b 820 Vitesse Fastback - Pewter Grey

Post by scoobyh123 » Wed Aug 24, 2016 5:44 pm

Errr........what Tom said about the CTS ^^^^^ Rich!

My idea takes the fan control away from the MEMS ECU using something similar to this :

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Alloy-T-Piece ... rjXaFHhO8Q

and

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Scorpio- ... Sw-itXsocS

The switch is the one i found before but i can't find the correct coolant hose adaptor at the moment, i've linked to that one to show what i mean.
Basically the switch is screwed in to the top hose so the sensing surface is uppermost (bottom of the hose) and the adaptor fitted into the top hose.
The two switch elements can be treated as two separate switches or connect one end of both switches together to get a common feed to two switches - whichever way you do it you can either bring one then a second fan in both at full speed or both fans together at slow speed changing to high speed when the second switch is made. I've worked a circuit out for this but can't find it just now.

Quite happy to do some more digging for you and find the correct coolant hose adaptor and the circuit i designed to switch the fans in.

*** EDIT *** While searching for something else, i found the coolant hose adaptor for that switch. I'd need to measure the 800 top hose to be sure it is the right one (this is the one i bought to convert my Jeep to electric cooling fan) as i think the 800 hose is 34mm internal diameter :

http://www.carbuildersolutions.com/uk/a ... using-38mm

It has the right M22 x 1.5 threaded boss for that temperature switch i linked to though and if 38mm is wrong, the correct size could easily be found on that site.
Cheers,
Dave

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Re: Alucard7002 - 1997 Mk2b 820 Vitesse Fastback - Pewter Grey

Post by Alucard7002 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 2:13 pm

MEMS and cooling fans are a bit strange on the Vitesse as it only has the one single (supposedly) two speed fan.

On the NASP cars it works a treat (except when the relay box decided to spontaneously combust on my 820 a few years ago!)

Not much will be happening with this old girl until I get it to Pembrokeshire and a double garage.

So far on my To-Order/Do list

Sills (0.6mm welding wire, Argoshield, stonechip, paint etc.)
Rear wheel bearing
CTS
Aftermarket Electronic Boost Controller (OEM one is iffy, 5% of the time it sticks and hits boost cut :-O)
Aftermarket Cooling fan controller (OEM wiring has been played with, simpler to fit and forget a two speed controller - Thanks for the links Dave, good timing!)
Diagnose and possibly fix A/C (hopefully something simple like an O ring and a re-gas)
Wheel alignment once the rusty bits are fixed.
Full fluids and filters service, cambelt, water pump
Full valet and detail.

Perhaps source an original Vitesse interior as it has the later Sterling spec seats (which are too tall for me and my noggin sticks out the sunroof!)

Funny story for you all, I first bought Mike's old speakers from this car in 2010.

Then I bought the Recaro interior off him in 2011/12 that is now in my 820

Over the last 5 years I've effectively been buying this car one piece at a time! :lol: (Johnny Cash eat your heart out)
Dušan - head lunatic @ Four Paw Racing

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Re: Alucard7002 - 1997 Mk2b 820 Vitesse Fastback - Pewter Grey

Post by CHR15E » Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:18 pm

Alucard7002 wrote:Perhaps source an original Vitesse interior as it has the later Sterling spec seats (which are too tall for me and my noggin sticks out the sunroof!)

Funny story for you all, I first bought Mike's old speakers from this car in 2010.

Then I bought the Recaro interior off him in 2011/12 that is now in my 820

Over the last 5 years I've effectively been buying this car one piece at a time! :lol: (Johnny Cash eat your heart out)
He had the seats off me, can't honestly remember why he wanted to swap now. I always preferred the Recaros too.

My strangest situation like that was selling a gearbox to Carl (Dodgyvinyl) from an 820 I had along with a radiator and some other bits for £75 then a year a two later buying the whole car he'd fitted them too for £100. :lol:
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Re: Alucard7002 - 1997 Mk2b 820 Vitesse Fastback - Pewter Grey

Post by scoobyh123 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:47 pm

Something i've found quite common as a failure point on the A/C is the LP service port valve. Remove the cap, "lick" your finger and smear it on to the top of the valve and see if a bubble appears. If so a new valve core is needed - i recently bought a nice little tool that means i can change the valve core without evacuating the system and some valve cores to go with it.

You're welcome for the links on the cooling fan, i remember you said you were a bit concerned about the cooling fan which is why i didn't take it to a new thread as Rich suggested.
Cheers,
Dave

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Re: Alucard7002 - 1997 Mk2b 820 Vitesse Fastback - Pewter Grey

Post by traineefarmer » Thu Aug 25, 2016 8:34 pm

Alucard7002 wrote: So far on my To-Order/Do list

Aftermarket Electronic Boost Controller (OEM one is iffy, 5% of the time it sticks and hits boost cut :-O)
If you want to avoid the expense of a full turbo control system and aren't looking to increase boost pressure, a Rover 75 solenoid valve is fully compatible with the 800's management system. It is a Pierburg unit and is more reliable than the Tecalemit unit on our cars which can stick in a closed position causing overboost.

The pierburg unit just needs some adaption for the wiring and a bit of bracket bodging. You can buy new for £25 or 2nd hand from ebay for much less.
Tom.

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Re: Alucard7002 - 1997 Mk2b 820 Vitesse Fastback - Pewter Grey

Post by scoobyh123 » Fri Aug 26, 2016 8:28 am

traineefarmer wrote:
Alucard7002 wrote: So far on my To-Order/Do list

Aftermarket Electronic Boost Controller (OEM one is iffy, 5% of the time it sticks and hits boost cut :-O)
If you want to avoid the expense of a full turbo control system and aren't looking to increase boost pressure, a Rover 75 solenoid valve is fully compatible with the 800's management system. It is a Pierburg unit and is more reliable than the Tecalemit unit on our cars which can stick in a closed position causing overboost.

The pierburg unit just needs some adaption for the wiring and a bit of bracket bodging. You can buy new for £25 or 2nd hand from ebay for much less.
Just a thought - would it be worth stripping and cleaning the existing solenoid valve? :? :?: :idea: Might effect a cure for the cost of some carb cleaner or WD40. :mrgreen:
Cheers,
Dave

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Re: Alucard7002 - 1997 Mk2b 820 Vitesse Fastback - Pewter Grey

Post by traineefarmer » Fri Aug 26, 2016 9:00 pm

Not really something you can take apart easily. I did try dismantling my faulty one to see how it was made and ended up damaging the coil.
Tom.

'97 Vitesse Coupe
'03 XC90 D5

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Re: Alucard7002 - 1997 Mk2b 820 Vitesse Fastback - Pewter Grey

Post by scoobyh123 » Fri Aug 26, 2016 9:12 pm

Oops! I didn't mean going quite that far - just far enough to access the solenoid plunger to clean and lube it and the linkage to the wastegate. Not sure if that's possible as i haven't had a lot to do with turbo cars, last one was a stop-gap 218TD with a FUBAR clutch that eventually FUBAR'd the whole gearbox when the pressure plate exploded and before that an MG Montego Turbo that did a James Bond style smoke screen when the turbo let go 20 minutes after doing the first oil and filter change!
The oil that came out of the MG was so thick it made treacle look anorexic and was probably holding the turbo together! :roll: :wink: :lol:
Cheers,
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Re: Alucard7002 - 1997 Mk2b 820 Vitesse Fastback - Pewter Grey

Post by traineefarmer » Sat Aug 27, 2016 1:29 pm

You really can't get into the thing with anything. On the Vitesse engine, the boost is controlled by this solenoid valve that blocks the pipe to the wastegate actuator. The wastegate actuator is set at something like 7psi and to get higher boost pressures MEMS closes the valve to keep the wastegate shut, then pulses the valve to open the wastegate and maintain the 11.2 psi max boost.
Tom.

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Re: Alucard7002 - 1997 Mk2b 820 Vitesse Fastback - Pewter Grey

Post by scoobyh123 » Sat Aug 27, 2016 7:33 pm

That sounds like an over-complicated system to me Tom! I suppose it worked long enough though but i think a better way would be to alter the wastegate to open at 11.5psi and have an adjustment nut to reset it to 11.5psi when the spring gets old and weak.
Cheers,
Dave

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Re: Alucard7002 - 1997 Mk2b 820 Vitesse Fastback - Pewter Grey

Post by traineefarmer » Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:17 pm

scoobyh123 wrote:That sounds like an over-complicated system to me Tom! I suppose it worked long enough though but i think a better way would be to alter the wastegate to open at 11.5psi and have an adjustment nut to reset it to 11.5psi when the spring gets old and weak.
I suppose that would be the proper way of doing it. Rover's design prevents people fiddling with the actuator to gain boost pressure.

On early turbocharging installations, bending the actuator mounting bracket with a stilson to increase the preload on the wastegate was a quick and easy way to extra BHP. :twisted:

I've also read that Rover's installation allows boost to be limited during certain engine management parameters. Maybe to reduce lag and improve throttle response. Or maybe to protect the fragile gearbox from peak torque at low engine speeds.
Tom.

'97 Vitesse Coupe
'03 XC90 D5

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