coupe vitesse pic overload

[tomcatdan]

Hmmm, I believe they are as they were replaced by Jim when he got the car I think. Perhaps I'll investigate some poly replacements.

As I've already mentioned, I could be being unrealistic about it's capabilities as the 216 is pinsharp and this weighs a decent chunk more for starters!

[CHR15E]

You'll never get a good compromise IMO. Either go for handling or ride comfort not both.

I have Konis with Boge lowering springs all round, Vitesse sports ARBS and part poly bushed at the front (rest still to do). The handling is good but the ride is very poor in all honesty.

[tomcatdan]

There's got to be an achievable compromise though - plenty of other manufacturers manage it after all - Mondeo ST220 springs to mind. IIRC softish dampers and a stiff body is the way forward... A lot of people who's cars I've been have had the suspension WAY to stiff and it makes the car qutie skittish.

The ST doesn't ride anywhere near as well as the vitty, but on the other hand the ride comfort is more than good enough for a "Sporty" car and more than liveable. Which is the difference between that and my 216 - that's not liveable in any way shape or form :p

Maybe that makes more sense for what I'm aiming for? Not looking for the impossibly good combination Jaguar manage to achieve, more what Ford can do. I mean come on. It's a Ford!

[CHR15E]

On a standard car you already have the compromise I would say.

[Richard Moss]

Making sure that all bushes are in good condition will make a huge difference to handling. That way, the only movement you get is in the springs and you get a more controlled response from the suspension.

Front and rear ARB drop links and mounting bushes are important because they will help to control body roll without having to resort to stiffer springs. Don't forget the rear droplinks if you can find new ones.

[rickt500]

Don't forget the tyres in the equation. Very low profile tyres really hurt the comfort, I'd be tempted with stiffer suspension but retaining a reasonable profile tyre. I've always found 800's with the 17's to be harsh.

I've just fitted a vit sport front ARB to my 820e with the 195/65/15 tyres, no difference to ride comfort but much less roll. Looking forward to getting the rear on too.

[james1978]

ive found one of my arb bushes to only be half there

im gonna change them all in turn
and as many as poss with polly bushes

dan, its only a matter of opinion as to how harsh a ride is
id rather a firm ride, but good handling car i can thrash around

i mean, if you create a bullet, its not as if you want a soft impact !!

[Richard Moss]

i mean, if you create a bullet, its not as if you want a soft impact !!

In fact, you quite possibly do! Soft nose bullets do and awful lot of damage to the human body and squash head rounds are used to take out tanks without ever having to penetrate the armour.


But I know what you mean.

[adamw9678]

Hi

I know this is an oldish post but wondered if you could tell me what size that FMIC is as thats what im looking to put on my Coupe.

[Manalishi]

Actually the intercooler is something to really look at as the Rover IC is pretty useless! When the ambient temp rise over 14deg it really is not doing any good. I have an intake temp sensor and as soon as the temp goes above 12-14 it rises to 40-50 deg. In the summer I can see 60. And this is bad. With a good IC intake would stay a lot lower, probably in the region of those 25-30 deg I see late in the evenings or in cold mornings. Problem is space and pipework. Not worth the hazzle in my opinion. Better to actually lower the boost those hot days as this will lower intake temps dramatically=more powa!

[Manalishi]

If more boost is going in then the temperature could possible be lower. the heat transfer may rise with higher burn rates but then so does the boost

so the IC would not have to do so much to keep the volume cool.

The stock intercooler may be crap as you say but I cannot see that it does nothing at all. It is there and in that place for a reason. A, to keep the pipe short. B, to recieve optimum air flow through it

The pipe work is too long and so more boost pressure for longer is required although some may say its negligible.

Perhaps what would make a difference is an intercooler in the same place but made from copper and so higher efficiency.

In argument all round, the whole idea, pro's and cons is negligible and so Is my main case for not bothering with the modification.

Unless of course as I mentioned you proceed with the upgrade of other components, my opinion

I should have said that I run a higher boost when I see those temps. Mine is set to 12.5-13psi depending on ambient temp. In standard guise the original IC does the job and a larger IC would not be worth really!

The Rover IC definately is there for a reason and it does lower the intake temps however a larger bore and surface would be more efficient regarding horsepower when the boost is upped. The lag increases with bore and piping but the gains are bigger than the loss. 8 degrees equals 1bhp so comparing intake temps of 25deg to 55deg speaks for them selves.

The reason for using aluminium is as it works as a heat sink when boost is on, and still has the ability to cool down quickly when boost is off. A copper IC would take much longer to cool down so that would not be a good choice of material. I had an IC-spray system on my 620ti and it did help to cool down the IC itself. Best bet would be water injection, but better intercooling would be even better, maybe combined with charge-cooler.

I quite agree that it's not worth the hazzle of fitting a larger fmic before other upgrades are done. The first thing to look at is the turbo itself including downpipe as they are very restricted. But if one takes the steps of making such large modifications to a Rover 800 to gain power I would say the choice of car was bad to begin with! The R800 is not meant as a racecar.

I

[Richard Moss]

As I see it, here are two temperature issues that affect the performance with the turbo: air density and inlet charge temperature.

Air density is one of the most obvious: higher temperatures, at a given pressure, mean lower density and therefore lower oxygen content. If you increase the boost then the density increases but if you also increase the pressure then some of that density gain is lost. This affects what goes on before the inlet valve.

Inlet charge (air) temperature is one that people forget but it has a significant effect upon what happens inside the cylinder. If the charge temperature is too high then there is a greater risk of pre-ignition and detonation. Both of these will have a negative effect upon performance and in the case of the latter in particular may damage the internals of the engine (this is why T series turbos blow holes in pistons at high boost pressure). Retarded ignition and knock sensors may help but will reduce power outputs.

[Manalishi]

As I see it, here are two temperature issues that affect the performance with the turbo: air density and inlet charge temperature.

Air density is one of the most obvious: higher temperatures, at a given pressure, mean lower density and therefore lower oxygen content. If you increase the boost then the density increases but if you also increase the pressure then some of that density gain is lost. This affects what goes on before the inlet valve.

Inlet charge (air) temperature is one that people forget but it has a significant effect upon what happens inside the cylinder. If the charge temperature is too high then there is a greater risk of pre-ignition and detonation. Both of these will have a negative effect upon performance and in the case of the latter in particular may damage the internals of the engine (this is why T series turbos blow holes in pistons at high boost pressure). Retarded ignition and knock sensors may help but will reduce power outputs.

Yes, it's quite noticable that when upping the boost you come to a fine line where the higher boost gives no powergain whatsoever, especially in the upper revs. (Unless it's freezing outside.) The engine feels starved, out of puff.

I love my Vitesse and I loved my 620ti, but I really consider swapping to a T28 or GT28. Not for silly gains, but for lowering the inlet temp and lessen the risk of detonation without loosing power.

[adamw9678]

I'm going to stay standard setup and risk the maximum boost pressure and treat changing the engine and turbo for another like I'm changing a set of plugs as its still far cheaper than Formula 1 

So what boost are you running paul?

The intercooler is just one of the mods I plan to do and I am currently running induction kit and 12psi of boost.

[Richard Moss]

On the down side, of course whilst a bigger turbo may produce the boost at lower temperatures the trade off may well be greater lag.