what happened to lord sterling

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dollysprint
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Re: what happened to lord sterling

Post by dollysprint » Sun Aug 30, 2015 11:55 pm

I have always found the problems arise when having voiced an opinion that you're entitled to hold members then go on to try to enforce their opinions on others no matter what, and then sitting behind a keyboard people then become incredibly brave, or stupid depending how you look at it, and launch into abusive personal attacks.
Over the last 18 months I have come into contact with some very senior police officers, recently during a smoke break I raised the issue that recently affected this Forum and how the law would view persistant, abusive personal written attacks on a social medium such as this. Apart from the obvious libel laws, if the attack becomes threatening or could be viewed as harassment then that it is illegal and the police could take action, notwithstanding there aren't enough officers to deal with serious crime let alone keyboard warriors!
As regards Mo (Lord Sterling) when another member voiced he was going to sell, break or modify (can't remember which) their own car Mo's opinion of that was a little bit over the top and he wouldn't let it go. It was nothing compared to recent events but having gone a bit far Mo thought he should leave if memory serves, don't think he was banned as such. Perfectly nice bloke, complete 800 nut and could spot one from half a mile away. Any 800 coming within 10 miles of Birmingham would be photographed and posted on here even if he had to drive across Brum to do it, at least 50 cars on my database are courtesy of Mo.

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Re: what happened to lord sterling

Post by traineefarmer » Mon Aug 31, 2015 7:52 am

scoobyh123 wrote:Hmm, with the 75/ZT aimed at a "younger" market than the 800, it might be suggested some members of that forum need to grow up then?
Rover 75 aimed at a younger market? .... :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: what happened to lord sterling

Post by scoobyh123 » Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:50 am

dollysprint wrote:I have always found the problems arise when having voiced an opinion that you're entitled to hold members then go on to try to enforce their opinions on others no matter what, and then sitting behind a keyboard people then become incredibly brave, or stupid depending how you look at it, and launch into abusive personal attacks.
Over the last 18 months I have come into contact with some very senior police officers, recently during a smoke break I raised the issue that recently affected this Forum and how the law would view persistant, abusive personal written attacks on a social medium such as this. Apart from the obvious libel laws, if the attack becomes threatening or could be viewed as harassment then that it is illegal and the police could take action, notwithstanding there aren't enough officers to deal with serious crime let alone keyboard warriors!
As regards Mo (Lord Sterling) when another member voiced he was going to sell, break or modify (can't remember which) their own car Mo's opinion of that was a little bit over the top and he wouldn't let it go. It was nothing compared to recent events but having gone a bit far Mo thought he should leave if memory serves, don't think he was banned as such. Perfectly nice bloke, complete 800 nut and could spot one from half a mile away. Any 800 coming within 10 miles of Birmingham would be photographed and posted on here even if he had to drive across Brum to do it, at least 50 cars on my database are courtesy of Mo.

Dave

Therein lies the problem! The very thing that brings us here in the first place is the thing that can cause arguments and all kinds of other things. Obviously i'm referring to the passion we have for our cars. That can cause some people to change from mild-mannered petrolheads to axe-wielding murderers in a keystroke. OK, maybe that's a slight exaggeration but illustrates the point.
traineefarmer wrote:
scoobyh123 wrote:Hmm, with the 75/ZT aimed at a "younger" market than the 800, it might be suggested some members of that forum need to grow up then?
Rover 75 aimed at a younger market? .... :lol: :lol: :lol:
Believe it or not Tom, it was! In the mid-late 90s there was a trend amongst luxury car makers to attract the younger market, the up and coming rep rather than the long established director of the board, the senior teller instead of the bank manager etc and this spawned things like the 75, the Jaguar Mondeo/Ford 6/Mazda X-Type, the "small" Lexus (iS200?) etc. Sadly in doing this, many firms "lost" the top end car from their range and the 800 was no exception to this loss. Now the 75 seems in some ways to have taken on the mantle of the flagship model. However there are many ways it just doesn't cut it in my opinon. That's not to say the 75 isn't a competent car, just that i don't feel it has the attributes i would expect from a range-topper.
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Re: what happened to lord sterling

Post by traineefarmer » Mon Aug 31, 2015 1:40 pm

scoobyh123 wrote:Believe it or not Tom, it was! In the mid-late 90s there was a trend amongst luxury car makers to attract the younger market, the up and coming rep rather than the long established director of the board, the senior teller instead of the bank manager etc and this spawned things like the 75, the Jaguar Mondeo/Ford 6/Mazda X-Type, the "small" Lexus (iS200?) etc. Sadly in doing this, many firms "lost" the top end car from their range and the 800 was no exception to this loss. Now the 75 seems in some ways to have taken on the mantle of the flagship model. However there are many ways it just doesn't cut it in my opinon. That's not to say the 75 isn't a competent car, just that i don't feel it has the attributes i would expect from a range-topper.
I know that they tried to attract the younger market with the Zed cars, but the 75? As a piece of engineering (kettle series aside) it is probably up there with the P6, but they completely buggered up the styling, inside and out. I realise that this is just MY opinion, but it must have kept the target audience away in droves.
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Re: what happened to lord sterling

Post by scoobyh123 » Tue Sep 01, 2015 12:02 am

From what i've seen of the engineering on the 75, it's a disaster and that's without the kettle! The fuel tank (from what i can make out) is in two halves necessitating two senders and two pumps - this was done to fit it either side of the transmission tunnel and improve weight distribution but as a practical fuel tank is a waste of space - much better to have two separate tanks like the Series XJ Jags. There's umpteen other things like the front anti roll bar bushes being nigh on inaccessible without removing the engine - if anyone knows a way of changing them without removing the engine i'd love to know!

There's also a lack of features on it that most self-respecting 800 owners would be horrified about not having like one shot down/up windows, no Lazy Locking, not sure about the "See you Home" headlamp function and after being a passenger in one for nearly 200 miles recently although it wasn't uncomfortable i know i can get out of an 800 feeling fresher.

As for the styling, that's purely personal taste but not over impressed.
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Re: what happened to lord sterling

Post by traineefarmer » Tue Sep 01, 2015 7:46 am

scoobyh123 wrote:From what i've seen of the engineering on the 75, it's a disaster and that's without the kettle! The fuel tank (from what i can make out) is in two halves necessitating two senders and two pumps - this was done to fit it either side of the transmission tunnel and improve weight distribution but as a practical fuel tank is a waste of space - much better to have two separate tanks like the Series XJ Jags. There's umpteen other things like the front anti roll bar bushes being nigh on inaccessible without removing the engine - if anyone knows a way of changing them without removing the engine i'd love to know!
All pretty run if the mill stuff for modern cars. No thought is given to the poor mechanic these days, I guess some of it is to bump up the hours a main dealer can charge for what should be a simple job.

I was refering more to the rigidity of the shell and it's general longevity. The transmission tunnel which isn't, the double skinned bulkhead and some massive box sections incorporated into the floor make it one of the strongest cars the Rover group ever produced.
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Re: what happened to lord sterling

Post by traineefarmer » Tue Sep 01, 2015 7:48 am

I still hate it with a passion though, for the styling if nothing else. The design language of the 800 and 600 should have been continued in an updated form, rather than looking back 50 years to the P4.
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Re: what happened to lord sterling

Post by scoobyh123 » Tue Sep 01, 2015 7:46 pm

Didn't realise you meant the structural engineering of it Tom. Although i suppose you could also argue it has a throwback to the Triumph Dolomite/1500TC as the bodyshell is more or less designed to be RWD/FWD respectively although i think it's harder to convert a 75 to RWD than it is to convert a Dolomite to FWD or 1500TC to RWD.

Why not just stick a Land Rover (or similar) chassis underneath and make it 4WD instead!
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Re: what happened to lord sterling

Post by deano » Tue Sep 01, 2015 9:00 pm

I always loved the shape of the Dolomite sprint
Back when I was a kid....
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Re: what happened to lord sterling

Post by scoobyh123 » Tue Sep 01, 2015 11:41 pm

deano wrote:I always loved the shape of the Dolomite sprint
Back when I was a kid....

It's still a good looking car, especially when you wearing your 1970-tinted spectacles! 8) :wink: :D

Always fancied an 1850 HL myself, looks almost identical to the Sprint especially if you fit Sprint alloys, spoiler etc as the bodyshell was the same and both had the black vinyl roof. It was really only under the bonnet things were any different. Reckon it would be easy enough (assuming you could find all the right bits) to fit a T-series turbo (or even just a 16 valve) mated to the later AW4 gearbox (next one on from the Borg-Warner 35/65 autobox) or LT77 5 speed manual to bring it up to date a little in terms of power output etc including unleaded capability and with the turbo lump - 200bhp Dolly??? That would be a force to be reckoned with!
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Re: what happened to lord sterling

Post by traineefarmer » Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:22 am

Surely a SAAB 2.3 Aero unit would be more in keeping with the car? A 225bhp dolly? You could almost say it was a natural path of development....
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Re: what happened to lord sterling

Post by Richard Moss » Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:54 am

I always fancied sticking a Saab turbo engine into a TR7
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Re: what happened to lord sterling

Post by dollysprint » Wed Sep 02, 2015 6:20 pm

Richard Moss wrote:I always fancied sticking a Saab turbo engine into a TR7
S&S Preperations stuck a T Series in one about 20 years ago.........................................wonder what happened to that?

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Re: what happened to lord sterling

Post by midnite » Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:09 pm

why did they invent the toledo, why not just the dolopmite, my mate has a mint restored orange dolly sprint.
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Re: what happened to lord sterling

Post by scoobyh123 » Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:55 pm

There's arguments for and against both engines (T-Series and Saab) being natural progressions.

It could for example be suggested that as Triumph sold the engine to Saab, they had finished with it so the T-Series would be the nearest "in-house" 2.0 16 valve engine available - certainly in 2.0, 4 cylinder format.

Conversely, the slant-4 Triumph/Saab unit sprouted a 16v head and an extra 150-ish cc and became the 127bhp Sprint engine, a few of which found their way into the TR7 as a prototype TR7 Sprint. That suggests Triumph had a few more tricks up their collective sleeve and bearing in mind the Rover SD1 2.3/2.6 engine was born of a Triumph idea, what was next on the cards for that, a 24V DOHC head perhaps?

The digression onto the SD1 was for a reason - could it have been that Triumph engine designers were to become the "in-house" specialist engine team? If so, where would the original Dolomite engine have gone? Turbocharged 16v cars in the showroom perhaps? Or maybe a 32v twin turbo 3.0 V8 in the Stag?

What about a straight forward Stag 3.0 V8 in a Dolomite? It fits in the Herald engine bay, there's one in the October issue of Practical Classics on Pg24. Granted that it is really a Vitesse but the bodyshell is the same as a Herald. If it fits the Herald/Vitesse with the low bonnet line, there's every chance it would sit naturally in the Dolomite shell and perhaps even the TR7, especially as BL themselves shoehorned the 3.5 Buick/Rover V8 into the TR7.

However, it could be argued the T-Series is a more natural progression. Basically a 16v head on top of an "O" Series block (with modification along the way) it appears to be a relatively modern engine copmared to the 1854cc Dolomite unit. Wrong! The "O" Series was actually intended to be a diesel version of the B Series, hence the strengthening webs on the block. However when it became apparent that the B Series wouldn't meet "stringent" new emissions regs due in at the beginning of the 80s sometime, some bright spark tried the diseasel version of the B with a petrol head on it and found it could meet those emissions targets. And so was the "O" Series born. This makes it a much older engine in my book. It also means it was progressed naturally within the group (and eventually went on to become the L Series/Perkins Prima) so depending whether you look at the conglomorate BLMC/BL/AR/ARG/Rover Group/MG-Rover or as Triumph as an individual company then the T-Series or the Slant-4 in some incarnation (even two siamesed slant-4's aka the Triumph V8) would be the natural progression.

Don't forget the "O" Series was fitted to Marinas, Itals and the Rover SD1 in RWD form as well as the Maestro. Montego, Princess/Ambassador ranges in FWD configuration so bellhousings and gearboxes exist in almost every desired specification. As such, you can easily mate an LT77 to a T Series for a 5 speed, RWD set up or even the BW65 (Ital 2.0 and SD1 2000 auto) or later AW box or maybe even the ZF 4HP22 as fitted to the XJ40 (and a less strong tranverse version, the 4HP14 fitted to the 820 autos) could be used.

As a point of interest, the ZF 4HP22 was also fitted to certain Volvo 740 models - an engine from one of these might also be regarded as a natural progression, maybe even more natural than the Saab engine. The old Standard Vanguard (later Standard became Standard-Triumph) had a Triumph designed engine which also saw service in the Ferguson tractor (little grey Fergie usually) and in slightly modified (bigger bore) form, in the 140 Series Volvos. Not much was changed in 1975/76 when Volvo facelifted the 140 into the 240 Series except they converted to OHC design. For the 240s successor, the 740 Series, they canted the engine over to about 20 degrees from vertical creating another slant-4 engine. In 2.3 litre, 16v, fuel injected guise, this engine pumped out about 160bhp of very usable power with quite a flat torque curve.
These were the last of the "Red Block" Volvo engines, the subsequent T-5 engines were all Ford influenced "White Block" engines and as such don't have the lineage to even think of conjuring up a reasoned argument for saying they are a natural progression.

Apologies for the length of this post, them's the facts as i know them, fairly certain they're correct, make your own minds up what the most natural progression of engines in a Dolomite should be! Whichever way you look at it, there's a rev counter that will look right in the Dolly dash, whether it's 4, 6 or 8 cylinders under the bonnet as the standard unit will be fine for any 4 pot, the 2000/2500 unit will privode the 6 cylinder tacho and of course the Stag would donate it's instrument for the eight.
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