Lancaster Insurance NEC Classic Motorshow 2016

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Alex SBY
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Re: Lancaster Insurance NEC Classic Motorshow 2016

Post by Alex SBY » Sat Oct 29, 2016 10:55 pm

traineefarmer wrote:
Richard Moss wrote:
traineefarmer wrote:Is that thing still going?

I'm bitterly disappointed by the club and won't be renewing this year.
What was the problem?
£16 has got me a couple of pens (stolen by the wife :roll: ) and some badly photocopied and barely legible newsletters - which are in monotone on A4 paper then mailed out in a foolscap envelope. Why, given the minimal content, these couldn't be A5 saving stationary costs and no need for a large letter stamp.

And that's it. Barely any organisation for shows or events, no parts discounts, no moves to have NLA parts manufactured.

I have an allergic reaction to committees, so I'm not interested in getting involved. I showed some support for the club, but I shall not be continuing with it.
Hi all, many thanks for your comments about the club, both good and bad, all feedback welcome. Some positives, we have sorted some insurance discounts, and our part finder service has helped keep several cars on the road (sourcing a C25A engine for instance) but, effectively, it is three people with day to day lives, who volunteer to run the club. We're sorry about the quality of the newsletters, the printing is carried out on a basic laser printer, at James's own cost, in fact, a large amount of club activities are funded by ourselves, for the benefit of model preservation. Discount parts, this is tricky. Several suppliers have turned us away, any suggestions or leads would be welcome. James can be contacted at James.copp-taylor@rover800.org.uk .

It sounds a cliché but Rome wasn't built in a day and we've only been going a year and things take time. We're at this years NEC and would be very happy to discuss any issues in person, Sit down for a chat and coffee, raise any ideas or concerns you may have. It's a two way street and we are always open to good or bad feedback.

All the best

Alex
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Re: Lancaster Insurance NEC Classic Motorshow 2016

Post by tonewheeldude » Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:20 pm

Just wanted to add something as an 800 owner regarding the one or two negative comments about the club. When I bought my most recent 800 a couple of years ago there was zero 800 prescence at shows, no owners club and just a handful of members on here that were mildly interested in going to shows. I am glad of Rover800.info as until this year it is the only vestaige of 800ness anywhere. However in that first year I went to several shows and with the exception of one show near Peterborogh (was great to meet some other .info members) there was no interest expressed by members here at all - so I went along anyway and parked among the other mish mash of modern cars. The BMC & Leyland show at Gaydon should have been well atended but again no interest from .info members, fortunately there were two other 800s that had a happened to come along, neither of whom were members here at that point and parked randomly among the other vehicles. I didn't even bother going last year as again there was zero interest from .info and put my efforts into my Sunbeam. By middle of last summer I was resigned to the fact that 800s were going to disapeer into obscurity as one of the only luxury built british cars to have virtually no following whatsoever and worth little more than weigh in value. Thankfully Tanya saw the same danger and got the ball rolling with the rover 800 owners club.

This year has been a different story. We have seen so much more interest in the cars and it would not suprise me if membership here has grown too...all as a direct result of the clubs activity at shows and more importantly via social media; with 29 Rover 800s going to the BMC and Leyland Show at Gaydon in July and other shows also being extrmely well represented through the year. Perhaps there could have been more, but considering the small membership initially and the fact that much of the costs were met out of the pockets of the comitee members I think the club did very well and achieved alot of ground. Costs for the NEC were met too. In the past those attending have had to pay for everything out of their own pockets.

The newsletters could do with work, mostly because of the lack of funds, however the content has been great and I have enjoyed reading them.

The owners club has also negotiated discounts with two insurance company's. As for remanufacturing parts, great idea but thats more of a long term project.

At the end of the day, the primary goal of the owners club was to raise the profile of our cars and to allow those who want to go to shows with other 800 members the possibilty to do so in an organized manner. Both of those targets were met with flying colours.

And finally...if you are serious about the future of the Rover 800 being more than scrap ....offer your services to the club. There are lots of areas that could be excellent on if you are prepared to try it.

For example. If you are handy with Wordpress, there are areas of the website that remain closed due to lack of time, but they have the possibility offer members more through the site

How about looking after spares and exploring avenues and sources for spare parts?

Maybe you fancy yourself as an editor or have skills producing magazines or brochures?

What about organizing events, or running a local area meet?

What about scanning and archiving material for digital storage?

Or maybe you have an idea that you would like to present?

I am sure the owners club would be very happy to hear from anyone who would like to be involved.
Last edited by tonewheeldude on Tue Nov 15, 2016 12:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lancaster Insurance NEC Classic Motorshow 2016

Post by dollysprint » Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:24 pm

Darren
I agree with most of what you have stated there but we do have some problems and I will air those in the correct place, the next committee meeting, if we actually get to have one. I will say this though not everyone, even in the committee, is on Facebook and that is where the 800 club is being run from. The dedicated e-mail account set up for committee has never been used except for a brief conversation between myself and James Copp-Taylor when James Taylor was looking for information for his then forth coming book on 800. Even I can't get into the the club website, I guess in short we have a communication problem.

Dave
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Re: Lancaster Insurance NEC Classic Motorshow 2016

Post by rovercoup » Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:38 pm

Before I start I make no apology's for the comments I make.

I think that Darrens comments above are totally disrespectful to all the members new and old of this forum and why he thinks he can pass comment on their efforts or passion for the rover 800 marque while only being around this arena for such a short period of time completely baffles me.

There have been members on here that have done more to keep this marque alive and ensure their presence at the shows a long time before a gold heinz 57 diesel coupe and its driver appeared, and helped many people keep a lot of vehicles on the road which otherwise may have seen the scrapyard. Both of the above have been born of personal cost to the individuals and never a moan or mention of said cost. TRUE enthusiasts in my book.

I don't recall seeing a gold diesel coupe at Cowley for the 30th which Tanya and husband put on but was well publicised on here and else where? In respect of the NEC I don't recall anyone asking for availability of their vehicles for the show but expect this to be for the preserve of the club members?

As a FREE member of the forum I do think that the member should consider his thoughts a little more before committing them to print.

Upset by the comments above? Damm right I am and if you think this is the way to attract more members by castigating people on here, THINK again
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Re: Lancaster Insurance NEC Classic Motorshow 2016

Post by traineefarmer » Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:55 pm

tonewheeldude wrote:How about looking after spares and exploring avenues and sources for spare parts?

Maybe you fancy yourself as an editor or have skills producing magazines or brochures?

What about organizing events, or running a local area meet?

What about scanning and archiving material for digital storage?

Or maybe you have an idea that you would like to present?
To be fair, these are all things that are already being done on this forum and done well.

To take issue with something else mentioned, you say that the NEC costs were met by club funds and yet the newsletter costs are being covered by commitee members. Surely it would make more sense to spend a bit more on the newsletter for the benefit of every member rather than subsidise a stand at the NEC to benefit the few who are able to attend.

A former member of this forum expressed his views (rather too strongly, and was banned for his outburst) when the club was in its planning that he feared it would create two tiers of 800 ownership. I sincerely hope his prophesy does not come true.
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Re: Lancaster Insurance NEC Classic Motorshow 2016

Post by tonewheeldude » Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:04 pm

sincere appologies to anyone was offended by my words above regarding 800.info members appearance at shows when i first bought my current 800- I certainly did not mean any disrespect to those longtime members who have given so much with regards to knowledge and information. As I mentioned before - rover800.info has been the only real place for 800 owners to discuss our cars, and I have enjoyed sharing my personal experiences and reading about other members cars. This forum has been, and continues to be a focus for 800 owners. Despite the movement to the transcience of social media it retains a searchable knowledge base which is invaluable. With regards to your comments regarding the owners club....you certainly have no need to make appologies for your personal observations.

Its true, I did miss out on that event. After excitedly preparing my (possibly) Heinz 57 car, the diesel pump sprung a diesel leak on a garage forecourt whilst en-route leaving my wife and myself no choice but to take it back home for safety reasons. Annoying to say the least. As for being a newcomer. I have owned 800 series cars since 1993 with only two years off when I had a fling with a 75 and a 6 month period with an ill fated 600...thats another story.
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Re: Lancaster Insurance NEC Classic Motorshow 2016

Post by CHR15E » Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:16 am

We did have more meets several years ago with some very good turn outs. I guess with a lot of people selling up and moving on (myself included) things have dropped off in the last few years.

It's a shame that things have splintered off but for me the home of all things 800 will always be here, just a shame some of the old faces aren't around anymore.

Between those of us that had been around since the early days, forming a club was something always talked about but the support just wasn't there. I hope it works out better for you, maybe times have changed and the demand is starting to take hold.
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Re: Lancaster Insurance NEC Classic Motorshow 2016

Post by scoobyh123 » Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:22 am

I think a lot of the problem here is the "new" 800 club seems to only be on Faceache - many of us neither have or want to use that thing. While some people see it as the greatest thing since sliced bread, it is the root cause of a lot of trouble. That is one of the reasons i refer to it as "Anti-social networking". It has removed the face-to-face interaction that is vital to getting messages across correctly. I think it was Einstein that said something along the lines of when technology overtakes humanity, we'll have a world full of idiots.

That aside, a few observations - take them for what they are, observations!

1) Darren - your "edit" in your long post would have been much better as a separate post, it looks as if you're pre-empting the forthcoming comments.

2) On the subject of Steves comment about you being a "Jonny-come-lately" Darren, although your join date on here is 2010 and you say you've been an 800 owner since 1993, the fact remains you didn't really make yourself "known" on here until you got TARA. As such while you may well have had previous history with 800s, everything points to you suddenly appearing with a hybrid coupé and "wanting to run the world".

3) Spares are being well looked after and sourced new or being repaired/revived by various members on here - they are the more common/generic to the range spares though such as sills, fuseboxes and so on. However there are many spares that are consumables such as gaskets that need replacing in time that do need to be sourced new or remanufactured.

4) The NEC show - while i don't exhibit there, i know some that have and early indications this year were that there were going to be 6 cars on the stand. Now it transpires there will only be 3 and all of those will be Mk1s - the Mk2 is an 800 as well! Knowing that some (maybe all) the cars on the stand this year are owned by committee members of the "new" club makes me wonder at the motives for the club.

5) To pick up on a point Tom has made, there is a very serious danger of a "them and us" situation arising here with club members getting preferential treatment over forum members when surely we should all be on the same side? Yes, of course, there are certain benefits that only club members should get because they have paid for the privilege such as the newsletters, advance (but not exclusive) notification of upcoming events/meets etc but there are certain things that should be shared freely with no strings attached, nepotism or narcissism coming into play.

Just to make things clear Darren, this is not in any way a personal attack, simply observations that i have made and done my best to make them in an unbiased way. Maybe you can address these observations in a positive way?
Cheers,
Dave


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Re: Lancaster Insurance NEC Classic Motorshow 2016

Post by SJG » Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:18 pm

Darren

Thanks for the message. You mention about various roles being available and help needed. I provided the constitution for the 800 owners club (although I don't know if it was used as I heard nothing back from anyone). I offered to help out where I could, but I heard nothing back from anyone.

There was very little about the show, the cars or anything for this year, on here or the owners club site.

So while it is very thoughtful to offer all the different roles, I won't take you up on them this time. Good luck with the club.
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Re: Lancaster Insurance NEC Classic Motorshow 2016

Post by tonewheeldude » Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:55 pm

Thanks for the reply Dave, dont worry I did not see your post as being personal and thanks for explaining and giving me the opportunity to address the issues you mentioned

1) Sorry about the edit - it was actually only a single word changed, in hindsight and as you poited out not a great idea as it makes it look like I was trying to hide or to dishonestly change something. I wanted the post to be from my experience as an 800 owner coming into rover800.info and not from the point of view as involvement with the owners club. In one paragraph relating to the website I mistakenly used the word "we" instead of "they" (the edit). The reason being is that I am not officially a club commitee member. I did offer to make the website and have helped with graphics and technical stuff and such like and so when referring to the website I used 'we' in error.

2) As far as I am aware (and I may be wrong as i was not involved)- the size of the stands at the NEC is decided by the show organizers, not the owners club. I dont know how the cars were selected and I dont really mind as long as they were there... we have had lots of opportunities to take our cars to events this year thanks to the owners club and the incredibly enthusiastic Tanya (who is a club comittee and founder member). Although I missed the Drive It Day because of the fuel pump problem whilst driving there, I really enjoyed the BMC day at Gaydon and its nice to have the little 1986-2016 sticker too.

3) With regards to wanting to rule the world - the Tony Bennett song came to mind which is a favourite on a clear sunny day in my 800 :) I have a job to manage my own life at times. I do realise I rocked the boat by suggesting that rover800.info associated itself with the Joint Rover Clubs and that it set of a snowball of fun and games. It seemed like a good idea at the time and I still think its a good idea. I suggested it because I was frustrated at having such a lovely car that I could not take into shows unless I parked with the other oddballs....and... I was genuinly concerned for the future of 800s in general ( for reference that thread is here: http://rover800.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13389 it doesn't all make sense as some comments seem to have been removed). As for the owners club....I had no involvement with the idea of forming an owners club and it was as much of a suprice and good news to me as the rest of us. The way i see it the only difference is between the club and .info is that I have donated £16 that will go to promoting the cars and have also given some time - both of which has enabled us to go to some shows and helped increase interest in the 800 series. For me everything else is a bonus - the news letters, pens, stickers, insurance etc.

4) Very good suggestion regarding gaskets.

5) Like you, I hope the "them and us" feeling that exists with one or two members here can be overcome.Avoiding that is the main reason the owners club does not have its own forum, but instead directs all new members to rover800.info. The club website links direct to here and new members are directed here in the automatically generated email sent to them when joining. The facebook page for the club is seperate, but generally only used for club announcements and news - for everything else the .info facebook page is used (I certainly use that one more than the forum these days).

Anyway - once again I appologise for any offence I caused in my replies and thanks for your tactful responce Dave..

SJG wrote:Darren


There was very little about the show, the cars or anything for this year, on here or the owners club site.
Its a good point you make about the website lacking all the relavent information. Rather than just posting the various news pages, maybe a dedicated events page should be included so everything is available at a glance. Be better than relying on only social media.
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Re: Lancaster Insurance NEC Classic Motorshow 2016

Post by scoobyh123 » Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:01 pm

Thanks for reading my post Darren and for taking the time to understand what was meant. However i genuinely thought (mistakenly it now seems) you were acting in some kind of ambassadorial role for the 800 club.

That aside, if you do have some sway with the club committee, gaskets would be a good starting point. Two obvious ones that spring to mind are for the 2.7, the rocker cover and side cover gaskets. I'm sure there are gaskets for the 2.0 and also the KV6 that are NLA and i heard recently there is a problem finding water pumps for older KV6 engines - i'm sure there's plenty more parts that a club with official headed paper etc could approach a company such as Payen, Victor Reinz or similar to produce a limited run of to fulfill a need. Obviously they might not be as cheap as they once were as limited quantity runs are never that cheap but i'm sure if the quality is without question most owners wouldn't have a problem paying for it.

Simon managed two production runs of bespoke outer sills for the coupé models and Mark (Fastback) managed at least two limited number runs of sills for the 4/5 door models - both as private individuals. Surely a club with official headed paper, a committee etc could do just as well with some of the other stuff that's hard/impossible to find? I've pointed a few people in the direction of the USA and Honda/Acura parts suppliers for some of the 827 specific items recently and have in fact bought a few bits from the USA not just for my 827s but also my 760 as well. I'd rather throw my money towards the USA than the EU for needed parts but more than that, if we can find a UK company that would make them, even better!

I didn't even know there was a .info Faceache page, could be the reason for reduced traffic on here! Looking at Simons comment unless i've missed something i think he thought you were some kind of committee member as well.
I did see Tanya at the BL Rally in Peterborough this year although not to talk to. It's a shame she didn't introduce herself to all the people that were there and explain the club in greater detail - a missed opportunity perhaps? Historically as far as i'm aware, the BL show at Peterborough has always been "the big one" for the 800 community - not everyone can make it for various reasons not least the fact the members are scattered all over the country and sometimes even in other countries - Marc (famous for his high photo shots) from the Netherlands for example although i believe he did in fact make it here. Sadly i missed him although i found his car. If it wasn't his then it was someone else from the Netherlands! :shock:
That aside, not everyone can make every meet despite best efforts. I try and go to the East Anglian all Rover meet on the first saturday of each month but have missed the past 2 or 3 for various reasons, most of which were out of my control. The cars were running, it was life getting in the way of living.
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Re: Lancaster Insurance NEC Classic Motorshow 2016

Post by tonewheeldude » Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:37 pm

Your suggestions regarding parts...that might well be worth having a new thread over, I will pass on your information to the committee members. You are certainly right, an official owners club should have more weight when it comes to dealing with smaller production runs. I remember once seeing Rover generated graphic which listed all the various outside companies that manufactured parts. I wonder if its possible to obtain a list...some of the companies might still be in operation or at least be able to supply CAD drawings for use in remanufacturing parts.

I missed the last couple of BL days at Peterborough as they coincided with personal events, which is why its been great to have a choice this year.

As for Facebook. It has its pros and cons. It is very instant and makes organizing events in real time simple. For me the biggest negative is that it is all about 'now' and yesterdays comments are ancient history. The other big 'con' is the way people put their lives out there for all to see. I decided not to do that from the outset. I have a personal account and only use groups such as the 800 one. Why would people be interested in what I was eating...or where i was eating it?

Here is a link to the rover800.info facebook page in case your interested:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/Rover800/
It is very active.
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Re: Lancaster Insurance NEC Classic Motorshow 2016

Post by scoobyh123 » Tue Nov 15, 2016 11:38 pm

tonewheeldude wrote:Your suggestions regarding parts......some of the companies might still be in operation or at least be able to supply CAD drawings for use in remanufacturing parts.

I missed the last couple of BL days at Peterborough as they coincided with personal events, which is why its been great to have a choice this year.

As for Facebook. Its a big 'con' is the way people put their lives out there for all to see. Why would people be interested in what I was eating...or where i was eating it?

Here is a link to the rover800.info facebook page in case your interested:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/Rover800/
It is very active.
Somewhere i have an original drawing of the Metalastik bearings in the upper wishbones, that said they don't seem to tally with the measurements i've taken. I've heard Legend KA3/KA4 upper wishbone assemblies will fit and are an improvement on the Rover version but so far only been able to source them from the USA at a reasonable price.

You were missed at Peterborough but we had a good turnout nonetheless for the 30th Anniversary of the 800 series.

I've "amended" your words in the part of the quote about Faceache to reflect how i feel about it in general. I did have a look at the page you linked to but couldn't make head or tail of it to be honest - which is why it gives me (and i call it) Faceache! :wink: :lol: :D
Cheers,
Dave


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Re: Lancaster Insurance NEC Classic Motorshow 2016

Post by traineefarmer » Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:23 am

Facebook is only any good for vetting potential employees and stalking ex-girlfriends.
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Re: Lancaster Insurance NEC Classic Motorshow 2016

Post by Tanya » Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:44 pm

scoobyh123 wrote: I did see Tanya at the BL Rally in Peterborough this year although not to talk to. It's a shame she didn't introduce herself to all the people that were there and explain the club in greater detail - a missed opportunity perhaps? .
I think it's helpful to clarify my position in the club. While I was behind the meeting to see if there was the desire to form a club and hosted it, I am not a major player and it was never my intention to be one. I am involved in many clubs, the Cowley Convoy and various heritage events Cowley so am fairly maxed out already. However, I am a supporter of the club and help out where I can.

BL Rally is always a busy day for me as I am chair of the Maestro & Montego Owners Club and it's our national so I organise the judging and awards, along with meeting as many members as I can. I brought my 800 to support the cars/club as it's the 30th anniversary. I did chat to some 800 owners, but then I also spoke to a lot of other owners on all the various club stands.

If you see me at another show, please do come over and say hello. I really enjoy meeting fellow enthusiasts but don't feel it's my place to introduce myself to every 800 owner when I'm not a significant person within the club.

However, what your post shows is that you and mostly likely others don't know who's who in the club so that might be something the club could look at. We are due an AGM soon, and I am happy to raise this then.

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