Volvo Diesel.

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Volvo Diesel.

Post by aryan57 » Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:37 am

I was recently loaned a Volvo V70 diesel by a friend while my car was in the garage for MoT work. I know nothing about diesels but was very impressed with this car. It was reasonably quiet and seemed to be doing around 50 mpg on a long motorway trip. I have now been offered the chance to buy this car by the elderly couple who own it. It has 184000 miles on it and a full service history. I am tempted.

For those of you who know your cars, is there anything I should look out for on this model? It is a 2000 year car with a VAG direct injection diesel engine and auto gearbox. The gears seem to change very smoothly, I cant tell if it is a 4 or 5 speed box, no flares, jerks or clunks when engaging gears.
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Re: Volvo Diesel.

Post by CHR15E » Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:07 pm

I've had a few V70s, which shape is it? 2000 was the changeover year from P1 to P2.

I've never had a diesel one so can't offer advice on that specifically. The cars themselves are generally good but they do have a list of common faults like any other. The original V70 (P1) was my favourite personally, I found the P2 to feel too mush like a tank IMO.

Parts can be dear new but there's several big forums with lots of used stuff available. Lots of the cars around too of all ages so they won't disappear anytime soon. Most people seem to spend and spend on them from what I've seen as the values are generally high even on older cars if they're in good condition.

You'll find a lot of info here.

http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/

I think if it feels right and has lots of paperwork it should be fine.
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Re: Volvo Diesel.

Post by traineefarmer » Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:59 pm

Not sure what transmission the Audi diesel was fitted with. Volvo usually had Aisin units which are fairly bomb proof if maintained well, sadly many aren't.

If it's the last of line "square" V70s and it sounds like it is, you really can't go wrong. Mine used to like eating lower wishbones, but I made the mistake of fitting pattern parts. Genuine ones would last much longer. They have an appetite for tyres too if the tracking hasn't been aligned on all 4 wheels.

I love volvos, they're like rovers that don't need constant attention.
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Re: Volvo Diesel.

Post by scoobyh123 » Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:38 pm

If memory serves correctly, the gearbox was a 5-speed on the V70 D5/D5T (non-turbo/turbo) but i might be wrong. Like has already been said, Volvos tend to be fairly bombproof although there was a time when Fords influence left a hole where the quality should have been.

Parts can be dear from Volvo although i've had some pleasant surprises during the years i've owned Volvos in the past. I found it paid to shop around and try one of the online specilists such as Brookhouse Volvo or http://www.partsforvolvosonline.com/

For second hand parts, this lot are pretty good, they have a mountain of old Volvos (at one point you could easily see this mountain from the A1) and a lot of knowledge :

http://www.lakes4volvo.co.uk/

For preference i'd never buy a diesel car (it's the Devils fuel :evil: IMHO) but if that's what you like and the car feels right, has the right paperwork etc then go for it!
Cheers,
Dave

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Re: Volvo Diesel.

Post by aryan57 » Thu Jan 07, 2016 11:52 am

Thanks gentlemen, I had the feeling that if I asked the question on this forum, I would get the info that I sought. Thanks for all the links supplied, they were very useful.

The car is a P1, the last of the chunky shape Volvo's, red Metallic with a light color cloth interior Called on the couple who own it yesterday afternoon and went over the paperwork and service record. The transmission is an Aisin-Warner 4 speed auto, with a lock up clutch in there somewhere. Fluid changes at 50-60,000 miles which maybe explains why it is still so smooth. The couple say that they were surprised by how little the dealership offered in a trade in against a new car, where the car was supplied from and serviced. They have been very loyal to that particular garage and feel a little miffed by it. The last of the children has married and left home. "Got rid of the buggers at last" were the man's exact words. I had to laugh! They want a smaller car for the wife, as the husband just stopped driving due to eye trouble.

As has been said, if the paperwork is good, and the service record, then go for it. I have agreed to take on the car from 1st February, as they are still sorting out their next car. This will be my first diesel car, and the only concern I still have is that the engine may coke up if I do too many short runs. But I hope to be able to pass the car on for close to what I paid if it turns out I have made a mistake.

Regards Thomas.
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Re: Volvo Diesel.

Post by scoobyh123 » Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:33 pm

Sounds like a reasonably good buy Thomas. Being perfectly honest, i think one of the first things i would do is change the ATF, it should really be done every 24k - more if the car is used either for short runs or for towing. Wouldn't think an older couple would do much towing but probably a lot of short runs where the ATF doesn't get hot enough to burn off the contaminants such as condensation - same goes for the engine oil.

The AW-4 is an excellent box and like Tom mentioned earlier in the thread is near unburstable. I have one in my Jeep with 247k on it and it's still nice and smooth.

Once you've had it a short while and done the ATF and engine oil, i'd suggest an "Italian decoke" just to blow the cobwebs out.

Also a word of advice if it's a turbo - ALWAYS let the engine idle for at least a minute before switching off. Many people don't and aren't aware of the consequences of not doing it.
Basically it gives the turbo time to stop spinning while it still has oil pressure. It doesn't take much to get the turbo spinning and when you consider some turbos run at up to 120,000 rpm (yes, you read that right, 120k rpm!) when they are on boost i think you can see they won't slow down instantly. Switching off while the turbo is still spinning (even blipping the throttle gently can set it spinning pretty fast) means it is spinning with no oil pressure so the bearings wear. First you really know is when there's a cloud of white smoke out of the exhaust and no power.

Good luck with it and let us know how you get on!
Cheers,
Dave

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Re: Volvo Diesel.

Post by aryan57 » Fri Jan 08, 2016 5:55 pm

Thanks for further advice re the Volvo diesel I am taking on at the end of this month. Good advice and as I always do, I will change the engine oil, filter, and the gearbox oil before I do many miles in it.

It is reassuring to hear that the Aisin-Warner 4 speed auto box has a good reputation. Not sure I agree with changing the fluid every 24-25 thousand miles, as the the Volvo forums seem to suggest that every 50 thousand is good enough. And the fluid is quite expensive. The engine is a naturally aspirated 5 cylinder VAG diesel, no turbo charger to worry about.

I will definitely give it a blast down the M5, M6 when I am up that way later in the year to clear everything out. And I will be sure to let you all know my overall impression of the Volvo once I have gotten used to owning. it.

Took my 1992 820si for the MoT test yesterday. Apart from one tiny hole in the front exhaust pipe, which they fixed for me with a blob of weld, everything else was found to be in order and it passed. Bill total £60, including a tip.
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Re: Volvo Diesel.

Post by scoobyh123 » Fri Jan 08, 2016 7:26 pm

Every Volvo i've ever had said change the ATF every 24k in the handbook/owners manual/whatever you care to call it. By almost all of the service recommendations in the handbook there was either an asterisk or a "blanket" asterisk for all the servicing and when i checked to see what the asterisk denoted it said "More frequently under extreme conditions".

Sounds pretty innocent until you understand what Volvo mean by "Extreme Conditions". Before i moved, my neighbour had (from new) an XC70 D5T and he asked the question about extreme conditions.

Any of the following :

Carrying a passenger
Carrying a 50kg load
Town driving

How often asked my neighbour - any of the above for an hour or more once a week! As for the ATF interval, dirty fluid cannot dissipate the heat built up as effectively as clean fluid and the big killer of auto boxes is heat. The fluid isn't actually that dear (unless you buy it from Volvo) :

http://www.gsfcarparts.com/980aa0471

That fluid should be suitable and they often have promo codes with up to 35% off, making it about £22 delivered. It's what i use in my 827s (it's Z-1 compatible) and also my Jeep as it's backwards compatible with all the recommended Chrysler fluids.
Alternatively if memory serves correctly, Dexron II-D is also suitable for the AW-4 box and that's even cheaper when bought in 5L containers :

http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/p/car-a ... &0&cc5_869

Regardless of the cost of the ATF, it's still cheaper than having a new gearbox fitted! Surprised it's not a turbo diesel, i suppose if it's an old couple they didn't think they would need the turbo.

Good news on the 820Si MoT, good price too!
Cheers,
Dave

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Re: Volvo Diesel.

Post by traineefarmer » Sat Jan 09, 2016 2:10 pm

Just another note on ATF changes and to reinforce what Dave has said:

Don't forget that the fluid in an auto transmission actually works harder than the oil in your engine. Engine oil only has to lubricate and dissipate heat. ATF is doing both of these things along with acting as pressurised hydraulic fluid to engage the brakes and clutches within the 'box, a friction medium within these clutches (which engage with a degree of slip to smooth the changes) and also transmits the torque of the engine within the torque convertor.

25k is good change point for fluid under this much stress and will extend the life of the transmission and insure you against failures.

My XC90's AW55 unit is "filled for life" and a well know failure point on high mileage vehicles unless the owner has opted for fluid changes. The same unit is fitted to some toyota models who specify 50K changes and there are no reported failures.

As for "extreme conditions", another that I have heard is "Driving at speeds in excess of 80kph" !!
Tom.

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Re: Volvo Diesel.

Post by scoobyh123 » Sat Jan 09, 2016 4:22 pm

traineefarmer wrote:Just another note on ATF changes and to reinforce what Dave has said:

Don't forget that the fluid in an auto transmission actually works harder than the oil in your engine. Engine oil only has to lubricate and dissipate heat. ATF is doing both of these things along with acting as pressurised hydraulic fluid to engage the brakes and clutches within the 'box, a friction medium within these clutches (which engage with a degree of slip to smooth the changes) and also transmits the torque of the engine within the torque convertor.

25k is good change point for fluid under this much stress and will extend the life of the transmission and insure you against failures.

My XC90's AW55 unit is "filled for life" and a well know failure point on high mileage vehicles unless the owner has opted for fluid changes. The same unit is fitted to some toyota models who specify 50K changes and there are no reported failures.

As for "extreme conditions", another that I have heard is "Driving at speeds in excess of 80kph" !!

I forgot that last one Tom! :oops: Thanks also for the detailed explanation on exactly what ATF does and as an extra point, when idling the fluid heats up a lot more than when driving because of the drag within the torque converter.

Re your XC90, if you have a "Pela Pump" or similar, you can use this to suck the old fluid out of the dipstick hole and effect a "part change" that way, similar to dropping the gearbox sump plug on an 827, it will only empty the sump but if followed up with 1 or 2 more part changes 3-4 weeks apart, you end up with near new fluid in it.
Now i tend to do a part change every 6-9 months on mine after i've done a series of part changes to get clean fluid to start with - also going to add a Magnefine Filter

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00G ... detailpage

on the return line from the ATF cooler and change that every other part change.

I also plan on fitting one of these to each 827 :

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00O ... ROKL5A1OLE

which is in fact the same ATF cooler as fitted to the original Honda Legend 2.7s giving them better gearbox life and enhanced towing capability (1600kg Vs 1000kg) and also means i can use a manual radiator instead! :D
Cheers,
Dave

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Re: Volvo Diesel.

Post by traineefarmer » Sat Jan 09, 2016 9:23 pm

scoobyh123 wrote:Re your XC90, if you have a "Pela Pump" or similar, you can use this to suck the old fluid out of the dipstick hole and effect a "part change" that way, similar to dropping the gearbox sump plug on an 827, it will only empty the sump but if followed up with 1 or 2 more part changes 3-4 weeks apart, you end up with near new fluid in it.
Sadly the AW55 needs a very specific fliud (JWS3309) which comes in at around £5 per litre even when bought from a commercial wholesaler. So I always do a circulation flush to make the change count. Still takes about 7 litres to do properly though.

I do have a Pela, essential for changing the oils in the transfer box, haldex unit and rear diff as Volvo (or their Ford overlords at the time) didnt fit any drain plugs to these units!
Tom.

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Re: Volvo Diesel.

Post by scoobyh123 » Sat Jan 09, 2016 11:58 pm

In that case Tom, have a look at the spec on this stuff :

http://www.carlube.co.uk/transmission-f ... sion-fluid

According to the spec sheet, it's JWS3309 compatible and Toyota, Chrysler, Honda Z-1 and many other fluids compatible.

It's what i use in all 3 of mine and found it to be an excellent quality fluid. Usually i buy it from GSF who i'm sure you've heard of (formerly German, Swedish and French) when they send me an email saying "35% off everything this weekend, use code GSF35" or similar which brings the price for a 4.5L tub of it to about £22 delivered.
That said it still works out about a fiver a litre (but still £7/L cheaper than the old Honda Z-1, now NLA and DW-1 isn't good for the box i have in mine) but you may be able to better that price from a wholesaler. Here's a link to it on GSF anyway :

http://www.gsfcarparts.com/980aa0471

A word to the wise - GSF will try to force you to enter your reg and almost certainly tell you it's the wrong fluid and you should have Dexron II-D or sommething similar (or DexTron as they call it! :roll: ) but if you add it to your cart/basket they don't usually argue!

Haldex unit - is that the bit that is like a mahoosive viscous coupling between the front/rear propshafts to vary the torque for the AWD system?

PS - thanks for the xmas card! We have a Polish postie and i'm thinking he took it to Poland and brought it back!
Cheers,
Dave

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Re: Volvo Diesel.

Post by traineefarmer » Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:16 am

scoobyh123 wrote:PS - thanks for the xmas card! We have a Polish postie and i'm thinking he took it to Poland and brought it back!
Ha! We are still receiving christmas cars now. The privatised post service seems to have gone a bit "third world" in rural areas. We're lucky to get 3 deliveries a week when the weather is bad.

The Haldex is the torque control coupling for the AWD, but rather more sophisticated than a viscous unit. It works with wet clutches, pumps, sensors and witchcraft and is very reliable if you keep the fluid changed every 30k rather than the "lifetime fill" that Volvo specified.

I was offered a Texaco universal atf with 3309 compatability by my usual oil supplier, but the general concensus from forums and transmission specialists it use the proper, dedicated stuff or suffer the consequences, so I have stuck with a Mobil fluid which is 3309 and nothing else. The damn car has cost enough to get right since I bought it so £40 on ATF every 25K (about 2 years) to keep things right is quite palatable.

Apparently the Aw55 has friction plates made from a material derived from paper (!! :shock: ) which are incredibly susceptible to contamination. 3309 was developed for these plates and is the only way to get an acceptable life from them. The AW55 got a bad name from failures due to incorrect maintenance so have moved on to more conventional materials for newer 'boxes.
Tom.

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Re: Volvo Diesel.

Post by CHR15E » Sun Jan 10, 2016 11:36 am

Makes me glad I drive manuals. ;)

Well aside when the flywheel went on mine last June. :roll: :lol:
Chris
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Re: Volvo Diesel.

Post by scoobyh123 » Sun Jan 10, 2016 11:41 am

Three deliveries a week? I wish! Lol! You're right though, privatising the Royal Mail was a very bad move. Sometimes, regardless of weather i'm lucky to get one delivery a week and then it seems like a whole rain forest has landed on my mat!

The Haldex unit is as i thought then, i was trying to keep it simple last night! I know it has full electronic control taking speed inputs from the wheel sensors, gearbox sensors and probably a few others. All this is then processed and the ECU makes adjustments to the clutches, brakes etc within the unit to vary the torque seamlessly - that's about as much as i know about it!

I didn't realise that about the early AW-55 friction plates, it's similar to Honda using an adhesive for the friction linings that Dexron II will attack in the box used on the 827 (amongst others) and in a similar way, Honda changed to more conventional stuff for the later boxes although i understand they now use the ZF 9-speed box in many of their models.

Have to say i'm worried about this apparently global move to "sealed for life" engines and gearboxes and have heard certain enthusiasts in Germany are drilling sumps and fitting drain plugs on certain cars. Doubtless this idea will spread and hopefully, manufacturers will see the errors of their ways.

Then again, if they don't, all us mere mortals that do change our fluids regularly will be the only ones on the road! :wink: :D :lol:
Cheers,
Dave

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