Volvo Diesel.

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scoobyh123
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Re: Volvo Diesel.

Post by scoobyh123 » Sun Jan 10, 2016 11:42 am

CHR15E wrote:Makes me glad I drive manuals. ;)

Well aside when the flywheel went on mine last June. :roll: :lol:

Would that be one of those F-expensive dual mass flywheels Chris?
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
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CHR15E
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Re: Volvo Diesel.

Post by CHR15E » Sun Jan 10, 2016 5:32 pm

It would. £700 all in. New flywheel, clutch, concentric slave cylinder and starter motor.

Joys of newer cars I guess?
Chris

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Previously owned 57 800s 2000-2012

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Re: Volvo Diesel.

Post by traineefarmer » Sun Jan 10, 2016 5:52 pm

scoobyh123 wrote:The Haldex unit is as i thought then, i was trying to keep it simple last night! I know it has full electronic control taking speed inputs from the wheel sensors, gearbox sensors and probably a few others. All this is then processed and the ECU makes adjustments to the clutches, brakes etc within the unit to vary the torque seamlessly - that's about as much as i know about it!
The simplest explanation for the operation of a Haldex is this:

Imagine the propshaft is separated by a hydraulic pump, the input shaft connected to the pump shaft and the output shaft connected to the pump body. In normal conditions with the vehicle travelling at a steady speed, the pump's shaft and body will be rotating at the same speed and raising no hydraulic pressure. However, as the rear wheels start to slip and there starts to be a difference in the rotational speeds of the shaft and the pump body, the pump begins to work and pressure in the system begins to build. This pressure is used to engage a clutch which also links the props. As the clutch engages the pump body and shaft speeds once again equalise so the pressure drops, clutch disengages, then pressure builds, clutch engages, etc, etc.

And that is how the Haldex can transmit something like 80% of torque before you add in the electronic wheel speed sensors and in-built electric pump which can over-ride the "mechanical" engagement and provide near 100% torque transfer.

I hope that makes sense. For a "simple" explanation it turned into quite a big paragraph.
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Re: Volvo Diesel.

Post by scoobyh123 » Sun Jan 10, 2016 6:34 pm

traineefarmer wrote:
scoobyh123 wrote:The Haldex unit is as i thought then, i was trying to keep it simple last night! I know it has full electronic control taking speed inputs from the wheel sensors, gearbox sensors and probably a few others. All this is then processed and the ECU makes adjustments to the clutches, brakes etc within the unit to vary the torque seamlessly - that's about as much as i know about it!
The simplest explanation for the operation of a Haldex is this:

Imagine the propshaft is separated by a hydraulic pump, the input shaft connected to the pump shaft and the output shaft connected to the pump body. In normal conditions with the vehicle travelling at a steady speed, the pump's shaft and body will be rotating at the same speed and raising no hydraulic pressure. However, as the rear wheels start to slip and there starts to be a difference in the rotational speeds of the shaft and the pump body, the pump begins to work and pressure in the system begins to build. This pressure is used to engage a clutch which also links the props. As the clutch engages the pump body and shaft speeds once again equalise so the pressure drops, clutch disengages, then pressure builds, clutch engages, etc, etc.

And that is how the Haldex can transmit something like 80% of torque before you add in the electronic wheel speed sensors and in-built electric pump which can over-ride the "mechanical" engagement and provide near 100% torque transfer.



I hope that makes sense. For a "simple" explanation it turned into quite a big paragraph.

That was kind of what i was getting at when i called it a viscous coupling although obviously that wasn't quite right. :wink: Much better explanation and simple enough, just needs a lot words for what is a fairly simple (but very effective) concept. There is something similar on my Jeep, i can put it in "Part Time 4WD" and the transfer box does a similar task. Putting it into Full Time 4WD engages a direct link - i don't know the ins and outs of it as i've not delved too deeply into it yet!
CHR15E wrote:It would. £700 all in. New flywheel, clutch, concentric slave cylinder and starter motor.

Joys of newer cars I guess?
You could have bought a reasonably good 800 for that Chris and had all the spares you needed! It seems a very retrograde step to make such a complicated clutch though, clutches should be simple IMHO.
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
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Re: Volvo Diesel.

Post by CHR15E » Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:16 pm

I agree, seems as always they're looking for ways to make money?

Had the car been worth less I would have scrapped it. Thing is who would have bought it that way and at what price, then the more difficult part would be replacing it as I still haven't found something that ticks all the boxes. So I had it fixed and still have it.
Chris

07 Ford Mondeo ST TDCi Estate

Previously owned 57 800s 2000-2012

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Re: Volvo Diesel.

Post by scoobyh123 » Sun Jan 10, 2016 10:12 pm

I think you're right Chris, it's all down to the pound in your pocket - or theirs as it is now after repairing it! They're less able to charge for routine servicing with so many new cars "filled for life" with vital fluids so they make other items more disposable and expensive to give them a better chance of selling a new car.

Finding cars that tick all of your boxes is a tall order when you're no longer 18. It's not a case of wanting to be able to trick it up and gain street cred instantly (or lose it equally as quickly for the wrong mod) from your so-called mates who are doing the same things to their boy-racer Chavmobiles. It's a case of is it reliable, economical, comfortable on a long journey, will it carry what i need and so on. It's a whole different set of boxes when you have priorities.

For me, the only cars that tick those boxes are the 800s - yes i've got the Jeep but that was intended to tick a different set of boxes and it ticks most of them. The only ones it doesn't tick is because of the location of the LPG tank which negates its ability as an estate car although i have fitted an entire 800 coupé interior, a pair of window cassettes, carpets and sound deadening matting, scuttle panel and high level brake light and a few other odds and ends inside. When the weather turns bad soon i'll find out if it ticks the final (and first) box i bought it to tick!

Meanwhile if you continue to look after that Mondeo it should tick all your boxes for a good while, the later ones like yours aren't bad cars at all.
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
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Re: Volvo Diesel.

Post by CHR15E » Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:54 pm

I like the Mondeo more than I thought I would. It's just the engine and gearbox I dislike. It's not powerful enough and the gears are too close together. Coupled with being diesel and having a short rev range in terms of usable power around town it's a PITA IMO.

On a good road, bypass/motorway etc it's great however. 5th or 6th gear and it just flies, almost as well as an 827 I'd say. Just that 80% + of my driving these days is round town.

There is a petrol ST the ST220 but it's not type approved for towing so I can't even swap to that.

For me while I enjoyed my 800s they were never any good for carrying things. The strut tops are too close together and the rear lights especially on a MK1 made loading awkward. I've almost always had some sort of skip to use for load lugging for that reason.

These days though I'm less inclined to be tinkering all the time and want something like the Mondeo but with more guts. The V70R I had did almost everything I wanted but was getting on and needed too much money investing in it so I bought the Mondeo instead.

The problem I'm finding is that with the tax laws changing in 2001 a lot of the larger petrol engined stuff disappeared. Though I have a diesel I'm not a fan and don't need the economy as I'm not doing big miles, I just seem to be stuck.
Chris

07 Ford Mondeo ST TDCi Estate

Previously owned 57 800s 2000-2012

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Re: Volvo Diesel.

Post by scoobyh123 » Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:39 pm

You've just summed up my car ownership in recent years Chris! I've often thought of getting something newer as my "daily" but there's nothing i like enough. I had the Volvo 740 estate as the "skip" or Dogmobile as i called it - mainly for load lugging and ferrying the hound to where i walk him. Again it did most of what i wanted but (although reasonably lively unladen) didn't quite have the oomph i wanted. Also the insurance on it was getting silly - more to insure than the Sterling and coupé combined!
The ideal combo for me would be the Jeep engine in the Volvo with the LPG and the Jeeps (or better still, Rovers) insurance premium. Not that it's likely to happen! :lol:

I drove many Mondeos with the diesel engine and 6-speed box about 12 years back, all new and to get the best out of them they needed to be on the open road - round town they were nightmares having to go up and down the box like a yo-yo. Not bad cars though and i can see why a lot of people like them.
Also owned an R reg Mondeo for a short while which was too long - even taking the problems out of the equation i don't think i would ever have liked that car! Scrapped it in the end as the clutch went very quickly and all the suspension bushes were shot.
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
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'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

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Re: Volvo Diesel.

Post by aryan57 » Wed Jan 13, 2016 2:17 pm

I have read with great interest the comments from Chris and Dave on Dual Mass Fly wheels. I asked at the garage about this, why do manufacturers fit them? I was told that in their view, it was just a way for manufacturers to make more money. They said that they had had a Mondeo' in, used as a taxi because the flywheel was rattling. After replacement and a 1000 miles the replacement started to rattle again.

The other year, I looked at maybe buying a Rover 75 that took my eye. But I changed my mind when I found out that the slave cylinders were inside the clutch housing so you had to remove the gearbox to get at it. Sounded like a bigger job to do than I really needed. So I gave the car a miss.

One reason I have steered away from automatic cars until now is because it was easy to replace a slave cylinder or clutch and autos are not so easy to fix if something goes wrong and can be expensive. Maybe I should change my view if one can now expect a bill for £700 with a clutch change for a manual gearbox car.
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Re: Volvo Diesel.

Post by scoobyh123 » Wed Jan 13, 2016 5:25 pm

The big thing with autos is regular fluid changes. Heat is the big enemy of autos and contaminated/dirty/old fluid doesn't dissipate heat as effectively as fresh fluid.

Most fluids are available in the aftermarket as a compatible fluid - for example Honda Z-1 fluid (the only fluid recommended for the Honda uto box in the 827) is NLA from Honda and even when it was available, was about £12/L. Carlube ATF-U is a Z-1 compatible fluid and works out a more reasonable £4.50/L from the right place at the right time (when they have certain offers on) that is. Don't belive Hondas hype that their new fluid, DW-1, is backwards compatible - it's not! It will fry torque converters amongst other things! Honda have "unofficially" admitted it may cause problems in older transmissions.

Having said all that, auto boxes are generally more reliable than manual for the simple reason that as long as they are maintained properly, there is much less chance of abuse, they are normally in the right gear for the engine speed/load so the engines have an easier time and IMHO are much nicer to drive.

I know the later 825 and 75 V6 models had the JATCO gearbox which needs a specific fluid - again expensive from dealers that stock it but there is an aftermarket compatible fluid. Without double checking i'm fairly sure it's the afore-mentioned ATF-U but i can double check if you are looking at buying one. You can always add an auxiliary oil cooler for about £30 :

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00O ... ROKL5A1OLE

That is in fact the same cooler fitted to original Legend models (and a dealer upgrade on 827s!) so should do the job for most needs. Also worth considering is a filter in the return line :

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00G ... detailpage

These simple additions help to ensure the longevity and reliability of auto boxes and if you happen to drive through town/city traffic a lot, you'll wonder why you didn't buy one sooner!
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
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'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

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