Autocar PSA maps out Vauxhall’s path to profitability

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Autocar PSA maps out Vauxhall’s path to profitability

Post by Charles827si » Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:20 am

According to Autocar, Opel Vauxhall have never made a profit in the last century.
There's always been talk of BMC/BL, Austin Rover Group, Rover Group, losing money but not as much Vauxhall.

Personally I think the company have a brand image problem that they never overcame and that's even after they gave the logo a makeover and went for a new look model line up a few years back.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/indu ... fitability
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Re: Autocar PSA maps out Vauxhall’s path to profitability

Post by scoobyh123 » Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:35 pm

To sum that up in a few words, we will soon have Vauxhall badged Peugeots and Citroens, as if it wasn't bad enough that we've had Vauxhall badged Renaults for 21 years! French cars are awful, truly awful, from an engineering perspective and there are many garages across the country that make their living "specialising" in French cars for that very reason.

Out of all the French manufacturers, Renault is the only one i'd halfway consider as being anywhere near passable but that would only be on a good day, stars aligned, Moon full in the 4th house of Venus and a sacrificial frogs entrails suggesting good fortune. :shock:

In a few years time, the Vauxhall factory will either be shut or rebranded PSA Group.
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Re: Autocar PSA maps out Vauxhall’s path to profitability

Post by Charles827si » Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:54 pm

scoobyh123 wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:35 pm
To sum that up in a few words, we will soon have Vauxhall badged Peugeots and Citroens, as if it wasn't bad enough that we've had Vauxhall badged Renaults for 21 years! French cars are awful, truly awful, from an engineering perspective and there are many garages across the country that make their living "specialising" in French cars for that very reason.

Out of all the French manufacturers, Renault is the only one i'd halfway consider as being anywhere near passable but that would only be on a good day, stars aligned, Moon full in the 4th house of Venus and a sacrificial frogs entrails suggesting good fortune. :shock:

In a few years time, the Vauxhall factory will either be shut or rebranded PSA Group.
I'm not sure if things could be better or worse since the PSA takeover. Had that not happened, GM would have found it difficult to offload Opel and Vauxhall and the company (or divisions) may have been broke in a short period of months or years.
I agree with your points on French cars and I would say Renault seem the most reliable, particularly since they have a truck division and PSA do not.
It's an interesting time that PSA took over GMs divisions because at this moment there are companies like Boeing and BMW talking about upping sticks from the UK. Though this to me would not make alot of sense because the UK as a whole has the most productive manufacturing sectors within the EU.
There's talk recently of partial aircraft production at a Bradford facility, so the way I see things there are mixed messages about UK manufacturing generally everywhere right now.
It would be good to see Vauxhall keep their technical, design, engineering in their cars in Luton or wherever in the UK which even MG Motor manage to do relatively speaking.
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Re: Autocar PSA maps out Vauxhall’s path to profitability

Post by scoobyh123 » Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:39 pm

A lot of good points there Charles but since about 1997-2000 time, Vauxhall have been linked in with Renault. Look at a few models - the Zafira, Astra, Vectra etc then look at the Renaults - Megane Scenic, Megane, Laguna and so on.

Then there's the Nissan connection - the 3.5 V6 in the Williams Clio came from the 350Z but also found its way into the ugly, big-arsed goldfish-bowl on wheels, Vel Satis. Trouble is, Renault made it unreliable. Can't remember the names of the Nissan vans based on the Vivaro/Trafic but they exist as well.

The big problem for Vauxhall is they're charging champagne prices for lager cars, although if they still had the proper engineering in they would be at least a good wine, rather than lager. As such, people aren't buying them and those that do, end up having umpteen warranty claims because of the French Connection.

As far as PSA are concerned, it's one in the eye for Renault as they'll hit Trafic production and its successor and also after Brexit, have a manufacturing facility already here so less likely to be hit for import taxes etc. That's what Boeing and BMW are forgetting
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Re: Autocar PSA maps out Vauxhall’s path to profitability

Post by Richard Moss » Sun Jul 01, 2018 2:56 pm

I have to disagree to an extent about the engineering of French cars. Proper Citroens with proper Citroen hydraulic systems are magnificent things and in my experience are straight forward to work on.
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Re: Autocar PSA maps out Vauxhall’s path to profitability

Post by scoobyh123 » Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:16 pm

Richard Moss wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 2:56 pm
I have to disagree to an extent about the engineering of French cars. Proper Citroens with proper Citroen hydraulic systems are magnificent things and in my experience are straight forward to work on.
Perhaps i should have said anything "post-hydraulic era" when Pugrot got involved Richard. Things like the DS21/23, SM and so on were, in general, far ahead of their time and better engineered than most things that come out of France today.

Totally different era and they were usually much more reliable than anything Peugeot has had a flipper in (frogs hand = flipper) so yes, on a very rare occasion, i'll agree that those Citroens were better than the rest! :wink: :D
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Re: Autocar PSA maps out Vauxhall’s path to profitability

Post by thamestyres » Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:13 pm

some of the shitreon and Peugeot cars are quite reliable, mainly the diesels nowadays, the citreons for some reason do not appear to be as reliable as the Peugeot's, so maybe they have gone with Vauxhall to poke Renault in the eye and maybe make there vehicles more reliable, or just maybe they are thinking of Brexit and are just sabotaging the car production in the uk... lol
on the whole most modern cars use cheap parts everywhere so none are particually reliable, just the odd car here and there... regards ricky
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Re: Autocar PSA maps out Vauxhall’s path to profitability

Post by scoobyh123 » Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:29 pm

Those diesels are the HDi units Rick, as far as i'm aware they're "outsourced" and i believe are used by Alfa Romeo, Fiat and a few others as well and are made by VM Motori i think.

The old XU9D (n/asp) 1905cc oil burner had a nasty habit of the head crumbling at about 55k or at any point thereafter. Strangely the turbo head didn't suffer the same problem because that head was heat-treated (Nitrided rings a bell but might be wrong) to prevent the crumbling. I've even seen a few replaced under warranty! :shock:

Another common fault was the engine stop solenoid plunger would gum up and stick - in either the run or stop positions, resulting in an engine you can't switch off or one that won't start respectively. Then the injectors and/or the injection pumps would go belly-up and several other common faults i can't remember just now.

Then there were the petrol XU series engines, as fitted to things like the 205, 305, 405 etc. Extremey heavy breathers, especially in injected form. Forever having to empty a can of carb cleaner into the throttle body and breather stubs, take it for a test drive, repeat then hope it lasts until the next service when that would be done again!

Something they all shared is an abominable electrical system. I could near enough write books on the problems those things give, whether Peugeot or Citroen, they're all badge engineered or as i prefer to call those particular examples, bodge engineering!

Maybe PSA will learn something from taking over the Renault kit at Vauxhall, i'm with you on the Brexit thing, we're going to be in one dire situation if the European owned factories shut down - we longer have a proper manufacturing base in this country that is UK owned, haven't had for a long time now. :(
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Re: Autocar PSA maps out Vauxhall’s path to profitability

Post by Richard Moss » Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:56 pm

The HDi engine was pure Peugeot/Citroen - until Ford bought into it because they couldn't make a decent diesel themselves.

FIAT/Alfa/Lancia used JTD engines, co-developed with Vauxhall-Opel, although some now use rebadged PSA engines
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Re: Autocar PSA maps out Vauxhall’s path to profitability

Post by scoobyh123 » Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:06 pm

I must be thinking of a different engine then Richard - that said, i've also heard the opposite idea to the one you suggest, Ford made the Duratorq Diesel and sold it to PSA as the HDi because PSA can't make a decent diesel these days.
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Re: Autocar PSA maps out Vauxhall’s path to profitability

Post by thamestyres » Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:06 am

mini also use psa engines now as well diesel and petrol, not come across any in bmw but I suppose that may happen soon as some of there engines have been going bang, timing chains that are at the back of the engine?... a lot of brands are not what they used to be, I think the current consensus seems to be "build for a limited period" as opposed to the old adage "built to last"..
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Re: Autocar PSA maps out Vauxhall’s path to profitability

Post by scoobyh123 » Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:38 am

A few weeks ago when i went to the East Anglian All Rover Meet it shocked me how many "moderns" were stuck by the side of the road Rick. My route takes in A11, A14, M11 and A505 to get there so a good variety of dual carriageways, motorway and an A road.

The problem as you say is built-in obsolescence, it's designed to keel over after a certain mileage. Then you throw it away and buy a new one.
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