Should we form a "proper" club?

[CHR15E]

Not saying it couldn't. It will come down to effort.

I'm all for it if people have the time. Not jumping too far too fast will probably be a good idea.

[TheOldMan]

Although what would people want/expect if we were a club from their membership?

The one reason I would like a club is simply that a properly formed Club can provide written valuation estimates for insurance purposes, but an 'informal' forum cannot.
Most of our cars are worth far more than the 'banger' valuations in the insurers' guides. If someone just clipped the rear bumper of mine I'm sure the insurer would want to write it off and offer me £300-400. I would want them the source a bumper and repair the car, or give me £300-400 AND the car back.
I believe mine is 'worth' £1000-£1500 as that's what I think it would cost to source a like for like replacement.

[SJG]

I have created a short survey to get the views of forum members about the possibilty of forming an official club.

In order for the views of forum members only to be gathered the weblink to the survey will be sent via an email to registered users.

Once it has been sent we will let you know and on reciept just click on the link to go to the survey.

[schuwolf]

Thanks Simon, I have received the email and completed it, hopefully correctly

[schuwolf]

Although what would people want/expect if we were a club from their membership?

The one reason I would like a club is simply that a properly formed Club can provide written valuation estimates for insurance purposes, but an 'informal' forum cannot.
Most of our cars are worth far more than the 'banger' valuations in the insurers' guides. If someone just clipped the rear bumper of mine I'm sure the insurer would want to write it off and offer me £300-400. I would want them the source a bumper and repair the car, or give me £300-400 AND the car back.
I believe mine is 'worth' £1000-£1500 as that's what I think it would cost to source a like for like replacement.

I must agree with this, whole heartedly. Cherished cars should not be written for because of a minor prang.

[Richard Moss]

The idea of doing "agreed valuations" sounds good in principle but hard to implement. Who would do them, how would we judge accuracy, would the valuer get paid, would insurance companies agree to abide by them etc.

[TheOldMan]

The idea of doing "agreed valuations" sounds good in principle but hard to implement. Who would do them, how would we judge accuracy, would the valuer get paid, would insurance companies agree to abide by them etc.

All excellent questions, to which I have no answers! But other clubs do so.
I cannot now recall which insurer's quote had a reference to Owner's Club valuations being acceptable, but Forum ones not.
I'm in the JDC, one of offspring is in MGOC and I'm sure other 'members' here are in other clubs too. So IF we form a club surely we can ask our 'other' club how they go about it?
Put another way - let's cross that bridge when we get to it!

[schuwolf]

I'm sure that an owners' Club can verify the value of a car. Certainly happens in other clubs, as The Old Man ( ) says. Obviously, the classics, like Jags, must all have a similar scheme, and I have read in, IIRC, Classic Car Weekly that clubs were being contacted, by Insurers, for valuations after a fire destroyed somebody's collection. Certainly worth persuing. I can contact the Classic Car section of the CSMA if needed.

[TheOldMan]

We could try some of our 'sister' clubs:

http://www.rover200.org.uk/insurance.html

"Problems however exist for cars like ours which are over 10 years old and certainly aren't getting any younger. Insurance companies are not experts in the prices for Rover 200mk2 and 400mk1 and their price guide is normally based solely on the age of the vehicle, regardless of its condition and mileage. Unfortunately this means insurers often undervalue them irrelevant of condition.

An 'Agreed Valuation' however agrees the value of each car individually at the onset of taking out the policy. This means in the event of an accident or total loss there can be no argument on the value of the vehicle when claiming. For our cars and in particular those which are concours or rare models an agreed valuation would be recommended.

It is important to double check when taking out a policy, that if your policy doesn't state that there is an agreed value insurance despite your opinion being asked on the value of your cars vehicle then you haven't got it.

Agreed Valuation

Unfortunately the club often hears of members who did not have agreed valuation insurance, or misunderstood their insurance cover and are now struggling with the insurance companies to recover the true value of their vehicle.

The club has teamed up with Chris Knott where you can not only benefit from a discount on your premium, but they are also able to offer an agreed valuation.

In the event of an insurance dispute, members may ask the club to provide them with an estimated value. For more information please contact Lindsey Smith"

http://www.p6roc.co.uk/

"For the purposes of agreed value insurance, members’ cars can be valued by some Club Regional Organisers.

Members can also take advantage of our Club’s Insurance Scheme and can obtain discounted rates which will normally more than cover the cost of Club membership."

http://www.roverp5club.org.uk/other%20services.html

Can't copy theirs but for a fee of £10 "a recognised club Valuation Officer will issue a Certificate of Valuation"

[Richard Moss]

The system is OK but who would do it and how do we set the valuation parameters? Who's going to decide whether a car is worth £500 or £1000? It's a lot easier for well established classics with an established history of sales through auctions, ebay, traders and specialist magazines, but that data just isn't there for the 800.

It's certainly not an area that I'd want to get involved with.

[DLR]

Interesting and valid points raised.

'Agreed Valuations' would be a very grey area and finding somebody to do it may well prove difficult, however the idea of discounts on insurance could be a beneficial factor in a club formation, especially for someone like myself (being young and all, I find it difficult to justify insuring a 1.1 Rover 100, let alone a 2.7 Rover 800). Let's face it, they are not boy-racer cars. Yes all of them may well have much larger engines than recommended for 17/18 year old males, but an insurer who has business relations with the club would be able to see past the engine size and see that these are the sorts of cars which are, in the main, enthusiasts cars regardless of ages? Providing we could find insurers who would be willing to offer reasonable discounts for drivers, it could be a clincher, no?

Also, re: club memorabilia - we wouldn't want to go overboard and stick the club logo on everything we can, or else we would potentially cheapen the club as a whole. Keep it minimal.

As well as this, we would have two ways of selling such items to club members; firstly, there is the idea of buying items in bulk and selling them on through a club shop. Upside being somebody can regulate what we sell and somebody is responsible for that side of the club operation. Downsides would include somebody having to purchase a large amount of something at any one time involving an initially large financial outlay and the need to keep stock for an indefinate period of time. Also, this offers the potential for that person to try and maximise financial returns from their hobby by marketing such items at incredibly high prices, as an attempt to try and claw back that initial payment as quickly as they can. This could lead to many problems between club members/moderators/etc.

The alternative would be to use a website which requires an initial set-up cost for logos to be uploaded, etc. and you set up an online store on said site, where an array of items can be purchased with the logo on, direct form the manufacturer. No minimum orders, no need for stock and the costs are chosen by the website and not by a particular member. (I do apologise for the lack of a link as an example, although I'm sure that we've all come across something similar to the one I've mentioned at some point - when I find an example I'll edit this post with the link).

Club publications - you'd need an editor to compile the articles and contributions from various members to create the articles in order to make it happen electronically (I'll volunteer my services for either ). However you would also need a printer for a paper copy and I'm sure that a home printer would not cut the mustard if you wanted a magazine-like document with an air of quality about it. So you'd also need somebody to professionally print it, depending on the format of the publication and the sort of information that the publication would contain.

Members area on the site - please don't isolate parts of the forum from people who haven't paid their membership! The informality of the forum is what makes it less of a foreboding place for new members and also makes it easier to interact with others if everybody is equal and can see the same things and post in the same areas. If you did create a 'Members Area', why not keep it as a location for member's running reports and progress blogs on projects?

Feel free to criticise/agree, just my input which is not necessarily the voice of reason.

[CHR15E]

No one's wrong at the minute Dan. This'll take a while to sort out if at all.

Getting ahead of ourselves is the worst possible thing that could happen. Whatever our direction simple but with quality will be tha way I think.

[Richard Moss]

I think that the forum may be best kept as a separate entity, rather than being part of the owners club. It works well as it is and it would be a shame to mess it about.

I'll be honest and say that I don't think that I have the enthusiasm for getting involved in running an owners club - I never have and almost certainly never will. I'm not an owners club sort of person as I've never really found any major benefit in membership unless it's for a discounted insurance scheme. Club magazines are usually out of date before they arrive, usually contain very little information that interests me and can't come close to a forum for their ability to provide information to members. When I was a member of the Rover Sports Register I never read more than about 10% of the club magazine and quite often (after scanning through it) read nothing at all before dropping it off at the local doctor's surgery where it could double up as an anaesthetic.

Other people may like owners clubs and derive benefit from them. These may be the sort of people who are willing to set up and run a club - but be under no illusions, it will involve a LOT of frustrating, time consuming, unpaid work for little emotional reward (because most owners club members - like me - are never satisfied).

Just my 2p worth.

[schuwolf]

Re 'Club Clobber': The firm I use only requires a minimum order of 4 for baseball caps. Everything else was supplied on order (I.E. 1 or 10 items of each). Very reasonable for quality embroided items.

Rich is right, a lot of work to form and run a club, but can be rewarding. Perhaps the forum should stay as is, and a seperate Club forum set up

[CHR15E]

All very true Rich. My dad was the editor of the journal for the BMW bike club until recently. While on a much bigger scale than here he was putting in 20 hours a week unpaid to do the job.

He had a fall out with the powers that be over expenses towards doing the job.

The president of the club thought that the volunteers should do it for the love of the brand/club.

My dad told them where to go.