Should we form a "proper" club?
- Richard Moss
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Sounds fair - any running costs could be covered by selling regalia.
Forming a club, even a free one, would open up the possibility of access to cheap insurance deals, discounted car breakdown cover (for KV6 drivers) etc.
(Initially missed the "O" out of discOunted - now that could have been embarrassing).
Forming a club, even a free one, would open up the possibility of access to cheap insurance deals, discounted car breakdown cover (for KV6 drivers) etc.
(Initially missed the "O" out of discOunted - now that could have been embarrassing).
Out in the desert with a 1998 Grand Cherokee V8, 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4L and a 1997 Chevy Tahoe V8. Back home: 1969 MGC GT
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Re: Should we form a "proper" club?
Wearing my 'trader' hat for a moment:
We don't give a monkeys whether its a forum, enthusiast group, or a owners club in the name; they're one and the same to us. As far as the discounts go, just ask and most will offer something, even if its just first refusal on the generic special offers or the email address of 'the right person to talk to' at the company.
Legally? I'd keep it vague. As soon as you form a legal entity (even if an unincorporated members club) you open yourself up to being shouted at for use of logos, linking to material that the seller/provider may not hold the correct copyright license for (rave and whatnot), thinking about public liability insurance, having AGMs, minutes, and accounts etc.
If you have 'rules' then you suddenly become responsible for policing them (whereas if you have no fixed rules nobody can accuse you of not adhering to them. "No posting material you don't hold a copyright license for" means that you the owner are now duty bound to remove it, whereas "users are responsible for making sure what they post are kosher not admin" you're washing your hands of it all)
Anarchy on the other hand (I own this domain, I provide this forum, up to the users what they use it for), with informal events (Dave is organising a Gaydon visit, anybody fancy joining, pay Gaydon/Dave directly for tickets), you're too difficult to shout at! Keeps it fun too, for the mods and the admins especially. (no outside rules to enforce)
"Donate a fiver to the server pot' button, for when a newbie comes, solves a problem, and leaves works well. Merchandise proceeds to the server pot, collect a pound off event tickets for the server pot. Should be plenty I imagine as there aren't enough of you to hammer a server hard and you're not hosting images/video etc on this site. (I pay a whole US$ 80/yr for the speedview site on a shared server and that's serving a bunch of images on allsorts of forums to the tune of about 30Gb/month)
In my experience (and I've registered on a lot of forums recently!) the best 'content' is always on the 'free to be a member' forums, and the best 'deals' are to be had where commercial activity is permitted with a well 'tiered' range of options. By tiered I mean that various sponsorship packages are available.
Take the Mini Forum for example. There's a 'free traders' section. You need to ask before being allowed to post, they take all your details (personal/company info) to try eliminate spammers, criminals and the illiterate, and remind you that moderation is entirely at their discretion. (if you keep posting "35% off green oil this week only," "10% off my overpriced lightbulbs," or "20% off my really rather ambitiously priced polish" you'll soon have your posts removed, but quarterly reminders/new product lines/seasonal offers etc are just dandy) The result is lots of goodies and services available to members at minimal cost/maximal discount.
Bigger trader? Fancy a more permanent post or the ability to discuss your wares elsewhere on the forum? There's now a fee that somebody waves a finger in the air and guesses at based on your business. Banners or sponsor forums? Now you're talking a fairly sizeable fee.
Insurance brokers, chip-tuners/engine mappers, car dealerships, and large independents are the ones with the deepest pockets. The margins on brokered insurance policies/ECU remaps are huge; one incremental new car sale is 500 quid before you've blinked; good independents solving known problems on newer vehicles at less than main dealer rates do very good business. Take a look at disco3.co.uk or rrsport.co.uk and see who the paid advertisers are.
You do want to force people to 'register' as a trader though and keep on top of the overpriced consumables crowd, else the forum gets too spammy. Equally, don't set the hurdle too high. Jaguar XF forum? The guy wants 800 quid a year for a 'basic' trader membership and thinks that this is a great price. Keeps the spammers out, but oddly enough the members don't get any discount deals. Insurers advertise (they actually pay more than normal, because the broker needs to recover the 800 quid somehow), car dealers advertise (again, they have the margins) but other than that the forum loses out.
As above, it doesn't matter what the legal entity is. The deal will apply to 'members of rover800.info' is good enough for administrative purposes. Would just book it on the accounts as an advertising expense if it goes to a legal group entity, or a sales commission if it goes to a private individual (they then stick it in the 'vague' club pot)
R800? In all honesty its too small/not interested enough in modifications/goodies to be worth putting cash up front to sponsor, but it is big enough (more than 250 *active* members) to be worth the effort of arranging a discount for. Some of us (eg - SpeedView, Opie Oils will come knocking, others (eg - euro car parts) will happily put a note on file if asked nicely, eBay sellers (eg - that guy selling springs/dampers for Dusan ) would do well if they sold outside eBay directly to you lot (can instantly offer a 10% discount as they save the eBay fees), insurance brokers will happily offer a discount if they don't have to sponsor the forum first.
A few thoughts anyhow
We don't give a monkeys whether its a forum, enthusiast group, or a owners club in the name; they're one and the same to us. As far as the discounts go, just ask and most will offer something, even if its just first refusal on the generic special offers or the email address of 'the right person to talk to' at the company.
Legally? I'd keep it vague. As soon as you form a legal entity (even if an unincorporated members club) you open yourself up to being shouted at for use of logos, linking to material that the seller/provider may not hold the correct copyright license for (rave and whatnot), thinking about public liability insurance, having AGMs, minutes, and accounts etc.
If you have 'rules' then you suddenly become responsible for policing them (whereas if you have no fixed rules nobody can accuse you of not adhering to them. "No posting material you don't hold a copyright license for" means that you the owner are now duty bound to remove it, whereas "users are responsible for making sure what they post are kosher not admin" you're washing your hands of it all)
Anarchy on the other hand (I own this domain, I provide this forum, up to the users what they use it for), with informal events (Dave is organising a Gaydon visit, anybody fancy joining, pay Gaydon/Dave directly for tickets), you're too difficult to shout at! Keeps it fun too, for the mods and the admins especially. (no outside rules to enforce)
"Donate a fiver to the server pot' button, for when a newbie comes, solves a problem, and leaves works well. Merchandise proceeds to the server pot, collect a pound off event tickets for the server pot. Should be plenty I imagine as there aren't enough of you to hammer a server hard and you're not hosting images/video etc on this site. (I pay a whole US$ 80/yr for the speedview site on a shared server and that's serving a bunch of images on allsorts of forums to the tune of about 30Gb/month)
In my experience (and I've registered on a lot of forums recently!) the best 'content' is always on the 'free to be a member' forums, and the best 'deals' are to be had where commercial activity is permitted with a well 'tiered' range of options. By tiered I mean that various sponsorship packages are available.
Take the Mini Forum for example. There's a 'free traders' section. You need to ask before being allowed to post, they take all your details (personal/company info) to try eliminate spammers, criminals and the illiterate, and remind you that moderation is entirely at their discretion. (if you keep posting "35% off green oil this week only," "10% off my overpriced lightbulbs," or "20% off my really rather ambitiously priced polish" you'll soon have your posts removed, but quarterly reminders/new product lines/seasonal offers etc are just dandy) The result is lots of goodies and services available to members at minimal cost/maximal discount.
Bigger trader? Fancy a more permanent post or the ability to discuss your wares elsewhere on the forum? There's now a fee that somebody waves a finger in the air and guesses at based on your business. Banners or sponsor forums? Now you're talking a fairly sizeable fee.
Insurance brokers, chip-tuners/engine mappers, car dealerships, and large independents are the ones with the deepest pockets. The margins on brokered insurance policies/ECU remaps are huge; one incremental new car sale is 500 quid before you've blinked; good independents solving known problems on newer vehicles at less than main dealer rates do very good business. Take a look at disco3.co.uk or rrsport.co.uk and see who the paid advertisers are.
You do want to force people to 'register' as a trader though and keep on top of the overpriced consumables crowd, else the forum gets too spammy. Equally, don't set the hurdle too high. Jaguar XF forum? The guy wants 800 quid a year for a 'basic' trader membership and thinks that this is a great price. Keeps the spammers out, but oddly enough the members don't get any discount deals. Insurers advertise (they actually pay more than normal, because the broker needs to recover the 800 quid somehow), car dealers advertise (again, they have the margins) but other than that the forum loses out.
As above, it doesn't matter what the legal entity is. The deal will apply to 'members of rover800.info' is good enough for administrative purposes. Would just book it on the accounts as an advertising expense if it goes to a legal group entity, or a sales commission if it goes to a private individual (they then stick it in the 'vague' club pot)
R800? In all honesty its too small/not interested enough in modifications/goodies to be worth putting cash up front to sponsor, but it is big enough (more than 250 *active* members) to be worth the effort of arranging a discount for. Some of us (eg - SpeedView, Opie Oils will come knocking, others (eg - euro car parts) will happily put a note on file if asked nicely, eBay sellers (eg - that guy selling springs/dampers for Dusan ) would do well if they sold outside eBay directly to you lot (can instantly offer a 10% discount as they save the eBay fees), insurance brokers will happily offer a discount if they don't have to sponsor the forum first.
A few thoughts anyhow
--
Marko@SpeedView Displays
Marko@SpeedView Displays
- Richard Moss
- Site Owner
- Posts: 13630
- Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:48 pm
- Location: Al Ain, Abu Dhabi
- Contact:
Re: Should we form a "proper" club?
Thanks marko, that's a really useful post.
PS: I hope to finally start the Speedview installation on my Jeep this weekend.
PS: I hope to finally start the Speedview installation on my Jeep this weekend.
Out in the desert with a 1998 Grand Cherokee V8, 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4L and a 1997 Chevy Tahoe V8. Back home: 1969 MGC GT
- Alucard7002
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Re: Should we form a "proper" club?
Cheeky bugger! Two full sets in less than 3 months... he must be pleased!speedview wrote:(eg - that guy selling springs/dampers for Dusan )
Dušan - head lunatic @ Four Paw Racing
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Re: Should we form a "proper" club?
In my opinion, as far as i am aware you are paying for the forum yourself therefore a donation pot will be good as it will help you out no matter how much is in there.
I think a yearly booklet which contains maybe a buying guide, meets for the year maybe a view other things.
A name change to Rover 800 Owners Club would be good.
No need to change to being a official club as it seems there is not much point.
Regalia such as hoodies and t-shirts with usernames is a great idea.
Stickers for the car also a good idea and possibly a leaflet with a sort of "join the Rover 800 Owners Club at rover800.info, posted by ........." something you could pop under a R800's window wiper. Iirc then MOC do this.
I think contacting parts dealers and insurance companies is another good idea.
Finally, something i have always wanted on a Forum is a Competition.
You could either ask parts dealers if they can donate something but if not then not to worry.
Another way which i think will work on here due to the people wanting to be a part of this and willing to donate, is by posting up about a competition (but nothing about the prize) everyone who wants to be involved would pay say £1 to the persons paypal then the person will calculate the total in the pot e.g £25, the person will then decide what the prize is within value of the the pot therefore £25, using the web the person will buy something (whether it will be from Rimmer Brothers or wherever) and then that will be the prize. A draw can be video'd and posted on here to prove that its legit.
In terms of the money itself, it can all be used to pay for the item and posting OR some can be used and the rest put towards the site OR some can be used and then the rest put into the competition kitty to be able to pay for a better prize next time round.
Personally i think that this is a great idea and way for members of the forum to get parts for cheap.
I know i am a new user but i will be more than willing to sort the competition out. I understand that maybe some weeks the prizes wont be great but then again if your paying £1 for something thats worth say £2.50 or more then you cant really complain. Its a bit of fun and a chance to win some cheap goods.
Let me know what you think.
Thanks.
I think a yearly booklet which contains maybe a buying guide, meets for the year maybe a view other things.
A name change to Rover 800 Owners Club would be good.
No need to change to being a official club as it seems there is not much point.
Regalia such as hoodies and t-shirts with usernames is a great idea.
Stickers for the car also a good idea and possibly a leaflet with a sort of "join the Rover 800 Owners Club at rover800.info, posted by ........." something you could pop under a R800's window wiper. Iirc then MOC do this.
I think contacting parts dealers and insurance companies is another good idea.
Finally, something i have always wanted on a Forum is a Competition.
You could either ask parts dealers if they can donate something but if not then not to worry.
Another way which i think will work on here due to the people wanting to be a part of this and willing to donate, is by posting up about a competition (but nothing about the prize) everyone who wants to be involved would pay say £1 to the persons paypal then the person will calculate the total in the pot e.g £25, the person will then decide what the prize is within value of the the pot therefore £25, using the web the person will buy something (whether it will be from Rimmer Brothers or wherever) and then that will be the prize. A draw can be video'd and posted on here to prove that its legit.
In terms of the money itself, it can all be used to pay for the item and posting OR some can be used and the rest put towards the site OR some can be used and then the rest put into the competition kitty to be able to pay for a better prize next time round.
Personally i think that this is a great idea and way for members of the forum to get parts for cheap.
I know i am a new user but i will be more than willing to sort the competition out. I understand that maybe some weeks the prizes wont be great but then again if your paying £1 for something thats worth say £2.50 or more then you cant really complain. Its a bit of fun and a chance to win some cheap goods.
Let me know what you think.
Thanks.
Daniel Davies
1994 (M Reg) Rover Metro L, 1.1L 8V Carburettor, Nightfire Red - March 2010 - Current Project
1996 (N Reg) Rover 114 SLI, 1.4L 8V SPI, Chawton White - February 2012 - Current Project
1994 (M Reg) Rover Metro L, 1.1L 8V Carburettor, Nightfire Red - March 2010 - Current Project
1996 (N Reg) Rover 114 SLI, 1.4L 8V SPI, Chawton White - February 2012 - Current Project
Re: Should we form a "proper" club?
Hi Daniel, not really keen on the idea of a competition, it's not something I've encountered on other forums and I'm not convinced it would work too well, however that is just my opinion.
On the more general issue of whether we should be a proper club I tend to think that we should, after all I have a sticker in the window of my Sterling and a polo shirt that say we are I think it would also be good to have a stock of regalia available but I think that could only be achieved if we were a 'proper' club. My only concern would be whether we could get enough paying members to make it viable? I do think it would be better at shows / meets to be a club rather then forum / club / something!
With regards to the forum we could maybe do like the ZT&75 club do eg keep it free for all members but only allow paid up members access to post items for sale and also give them bigger mail boxes and also the ability to upload pictures directly here rather then having to host them elsewhere and link them.
On the more general issue of whether we should be a proper club I tend to think that we should, after all I have a sticker in the window of my Sterling and a polo shirt that say we are I think it would also be good to have a stock of regalia available but I think that could only be achieved if we were a 'proper' club. My only concern would be whether we could get enough paying members to make it viable? I do think it would be better at shows / meets to be a club rather then forum / club / something!
With regards to the forum we could maybe do like the ZT&75 club do eg keep it free for all members but only allow paid up members access to post items for sale and also give them bigger mail boxes and also the ability to upload pictures directly here rather then having to host them elsewhere and link them.
Guru - AKA James
m6jkk.com
Current Fleet
1991 Rover Sterling mk1c (taking a break)
2015 Mercedes C300 Hybrid
2015 Mini Cooper SD
m6jkk.com
Current Fleet
1991 Rover Sterling mk1c (taking a break)
2015 Mercedes C300 Hybrid
2015 Mini Cooper SD
- metelmickey
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Re: Should we form a "proper" club?
how would paying work if you don't have a pay-pal account ( me ) ( in dispute with them )
MIKE
just got a 827 mk2 coupe and loving it, more commanly known as mad mick ( used to run a nitros injected firebird ) still missing my rover, now got a BMW 735 1999. now got 2003 760l, a 6.0ltr V12 and 445bhp.
just got a 827 mk2 coupe and loving it, more commanly known as mad mick ( used to run a nitros injected firebird ) still missing my rover, now got a BMW 735 1999. now got 2003 760l, a 6.0ltr V12 and 445bhp.
Re: Should we form a "proper" club?
If the club set up a business paypal account then they can issue an electronic invoice. This can then just be paid by the member using a credit card without them needing to have a paypal account.metelmickey wrote:how would paying work if you don't have a pay-pal account ( me ) ( in dispute with them )
I use this for my business occasionally.
Guru - AKA James
m6jkk.com
Current Fleet
1991 Rover Sterling mk1c (taking a break)
2015 Mercedes C300 Hybrid
2015 Mini Cooper SD
m6jkk.com
Current Fleet
1991 Rover Sterling mk1c (taking a break)
2015 Mercedes C300 Hybrid
2015 Mini Cooper SD
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Re: Should we form a "proper" club?
The competition idea comes from Cliosport. Not sure how they work it though.
As for the paid members only can post for sale ads, i dont understand that because if some random person had a 800 or 800 parts to sell that they wanted to sell to an enthusiast then they wouldnt be able to because they are not a member and dont want to spend £x just to sell an item on here when they could just do it through ebay for less. Thats my opinion. However someone may be able to tell me what other use this have or whatever etc.
As for the paid members only can post for sale ads, i dont understand that because if some random person had a 800 or 800 parts to sell that they wanted to sell to an enthusiast then they wouldnt be able to because they are not a member and dont want to spend £x just to sell an item on here when they could just do it through ebay for less. Thats my opinion. However someone may be able to tell me what other use this have or whatever etc.
Daniel Davies
1994 (M Reg) Rover Metro L, 1.1L 8V Carburettor, Nightfire Red - March 2010 - Current Project
1996 (N Reg) Rover 114 SLI, 1.4L 8V SPI, Chawton White - February 2012 - Current Project
1994 (M Reg) Rover Metro L, 1.1L 8V Carburettor, Nightfire Red - March 2010 - Current Project
1996 (N Reg) Rover 114 SLI, 1.4L 8V SPI, Chawton White - February 2012 - Current Project
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Re: Should we form a "proper" club?
I agree and believe that if it was a bonifide club we may get more people joining the throng and attending such shows
Rover 827 Vitesse Fastback Man Mk1 89
Rover 827 Sterling saloon Auto 90
Rover 820 Fastback 2.0 MPi Auto 90
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Re: Should we form a "proper" club?
What is meant Exactly by the term `Bonafida` and `proper` club ??
1993 Rover 827 SLI Fastback Mk2
1999 Rover 825 Sterling Saloon Mk2 (HGF)
------------------
Previously
1996 Rover 825 Sterling Coupe Mk2
1993 Rover 827 Sterling Saloon Mk2
1990 Rover 827 Sterling Saloon Mk1
1972 Rover P6 2000TC
1999 Rover 825 Sterling Saloon Mk2 (HGF)
------------------
Previously
1996 Rover 825 Sterling Coupe Mk2
1993 Rover 827 Sterling Saloon Mk2
1990 Rover 827 Sterling Saloon Mk1
1972 Rover P6 2000TC
- Richard Moss
- Site Owner
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Re: Should we form a "proper" club?
By 'proper' club I mean the fact that we would have a formal membership system and be fully set up as a club rather than the current forum-based talking shop. That would give us the ability to raise funds to attend shows and get more publicity in the classic car press. Bonafide just means 'proper' or 'genuine'.
Out in the desert with a 1998 Grand Cherokee V8, 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4L and a 1997 Chevy Tahoe V8. Back home: 1969 MGC GT
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